SPEAKER_01 0:00

What do you think the secret of being a great coach is? And I'm like, well, you know, understanding the player, making a connection, you know, with tactical knowledge. He's just sitting there laughing at me as he drinks his beer. And I'm I'm like, well, what is it, Ray? He said the secret of becoming a great coach is finding the best players. Today's guest is not just one of the sharpest minds in British tennis, he's also my best friend in the sport. James Troman had a hugely promising junior career, reaching three junior Grand Slam doubles finals and winning two of them, before illness and injury cut that journey short. But what followed was just as impressive. He moved into international coaching in his early 20s and has since worked with some of the biggest names in British tennis, including overlooking the ATP breakthroughs of Jack Draper, Cameron Norrie, and Carl Edmund. Away from the court, he's built a deep passion for the art world. Collecting, investing, and seeing creativity through a completely different lens. This is Beyond Tennis, and I'm glad you're here. Welcome, James. Thank you, Johnny. Thanks for having me. Looking forward to the conversation. I'm ready. Are you? I think so. I think so. I've known you since I was five or six years of age. It's going to be a bit strange. We've had plenty of conversations, but none like this. None with the lights and the cameras on us. No. Um so what we do at Beyond Tennis, we go through the careers of our guests. Um, and then we're going to do a little bit of a uh conversation on your Beyond Tennis career, which uh you've listed as as art and your love of Ipswich Town Football Club battling through the championship at the moment. Okay, so we're gonna start at the beginning. Where did you start? When did tennis become when did you first put a racket in your hand? It was um so I came from a little village just outside of Ipswich called Sprougton and very kind of local community. The primary school was there, all my friends were there, playing fields, and over at the playing fields there was a tennis club, which still exists to this day, still people there that I know and kind of grew up with and played tennis with, actually, um, when I was young. And my dad was a kind of club tennis player. So I'd go over there, I'd be kicking the football around, he'd be playing matches. What sort of age are you? I would have been sort of six, seven, yeah, something like that. And and then, you know, one day in between the matches, you know, somebody just said, Oh, would you want to have a little go? Yeah. So I jumped on the court, started hitting a few tennis balls around, and never kind of looked back. Loved it. So when you I know that as we fast forward, you you had a really successful junior career. When did you start training more? And how do you a long time ago? Long time ago, yeah. But you sort of look back on it, and it was typical, you start sort of playing locally, then you get involved in county tennis. I remember playing short tennis and with spongeballs. Exactly, going to the nationals there, and then sort of progressing on to you know the regular tennis ball and doing well in the county, then playing regional tournament, yeah, getting involved in national tournaments. And I'd say from the age of 12 was when it started to get a little different. You know, you started having some good results at like 11 12s. Yeah, I was always sort of the best in the county and doing well in the region. And um, I got offered a place at Bisham Abbey, which was the national tennis centre, yeah, at the time when I was 12 years old. And you know, it's kind of funny to look at it now because I've got a daughter who's 13 and my son's 10, um, and they seem so young. But at 12, there was nothing. So, I mean, for people that don't know that you were sent a residential camp as well, wasn't it? So you were there sleeping there throughout the week, going to school. Yeah, you you were boarding there and kind of away from home, and you know, to sort of think of that at such a young age feels quite strange now, but I I loved it, wouldn't change anything about it. And to talk to me a little bit about that environment then, because it we were when you were there, you there was obviously a lot of very good players that came out of that period. There was sort of Martin Lee, who's number one in the world junior, there was David Sherwood who played David's Cup, there was Dan Keelan who who's obviously now got a good career in in tennis. It was amazing. I mean, I was the youngest, youngest player there. Yeah. Um, you know, one of my best friends, guy called Alex Ostrive, yes, joined at the same time. And you know, we still he lives over in the States now, but we still see each other all the time alley oh. And um, but even that, there were guys like Lee Sabin, James Bailey, James Bray. James Bailey, one of Grand Slam juniors, Andrew Foster, yeah, um, Andrew Richardson, Barry Cowan, uh all the who's who of British tennis balls. All these guys were still there at the time when I was just joining, and and you go in there as a 12-year-old, and it's you know But what did your days look like? Uh you'd so you'd go into the local school, Great Marlowe, which which which you know well. Yeah, and you kind of you signed up for the sort of main core lessons. Yeah. I'd come out of school usually once a day to to do some extra training. Yeah. And then straight after school, we'd be playing a game of football or uni hocke or whatever. Yeah. Training for a couple of hours, then in the gym or some kind of fitness at the end of the day. Um, I mean, tennis has moved on a lot, you know, from from back then and how important everything has become away from the court. Yes. But I don't think we were necessarily playing less. If anything, we were probably playing a bit more than than some players do now, I think. Yeah, yeah. And and at this point, you're starting to represent Great Britain and throughout the junior age groups. When did you start playing internationally? What sort of age? Uh well, you I mean, you play Tarbes. Yeah. That's under 14s. Yeah, so I remember that. I thought under 12s, I think, is it? Uh Tarbes within the 14s, I think. Tarbes is 14s or 12s. So it would have been around that age. Yeah. And and obviously you're playing winter cups, summer cups for GB. Yeah. Um, so you're not traveling extensively, probably from the age of I mean, Barker's Ian Barclay, who you know really well, um, who coached Pat Cash um from his sort of early tennis days through to a Wimbledon champion.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

But he took over Pat Cash at what age?

SPEAKER_01 5:56

I think he coached him his whole career. Whole career took him to Wimbledon Champion. Amazing. Which not many people have done. Yeah. Which again, people don't know Ian Barclay was running Bishop Abbey Academy, yeah. And uh he was pretty big in playing ITFs at a younger age. So I think I probably started playing ITFs maybe 13, 14. That is young. Yeah, and and traveling. I remember going over to Asia. Um, predominantly, we spent a lot of time in Asia actually, over to the States, different countries. So it kind of the tennis journey started then. So at 13, 14, are you starting to think that tennis is your career, is your life? What do you I think when you when you look back on it and and and you're that age, I certainly didn't know. No. I'm I'm just kind of doing it. Yeah. If that makes sense. I'm I'm I'm having fun. Yeah, I'm playing. You think it's gonna be just you know, that it's gonna just happen for you. Be easy, yeah. Yeah, but you you've got kind of no idea um what's going on at that time. I just remember having a lot of fun. Yeah. And and enjoying my tennis, enjoying competing. Um, but yeah, I I I had no real idea of of the commitment, I would say. Yeah. And and the one thing I look looking at that is, and we've had a couple of people in, and I'm quite interested in like the environments that people are around at that age. Quite fortunate then to be around a lot of people that you've just reeled off and mentioned that were training hard and and putting good values into you at an early age, like all those guys that you mentioned went on to have tennis careers. So that must have been a huge value to you going forwards. Yeah, it it was I was incredibly lucky. Yeah. That there's there's no you're obviously very good as well. Uh and you you you kind of I think you you you're subconsciously taking it in. You're not consciously aware at that age of what's going on, but to be surrounded by other like-minded individuals, yeah, some fantastic tennis players, but also the coaches. I've been way more successful as a tennis coach than I ever was as a player. Yeah, I was probably pretty average. Um, but you know, having the opportunity to spend time with Ian and you're still friends with Ian Barkley now, isn't he? I just saw Ian um so over in Australia. Uh I think Ian must be, he's about 87 now. And last year at the Australian Open, Jack played three best of five set matches. Yeah. Uh first first three rounds. Amazing matches. Barkers came to every match. Yeah, yeah. You know, phoned me the next day. He remembered every single point. Yeah, even at his age, amazing. You know, four-hour matches or whatever they were, they seemed to go on forever. He hadn't forgotten anything and was still, you know, completely on the money. So when I look back on it, to be, you know, to have him as my coach, I mean, you couldn't ask for anything. That's amazing. Amazing, the relationship he kept with all those boys, really. Yeah. So he still stays in contact, still loves tennis as much as he did when we were kids. But that that passion definitely would have spilled over, I'm sure, for the rest of us. Amazing tennis mind, and you know, somebody who tennis, you know, is his life. Yeah. He's got his family, he's got other things, but tennis was certainly, you know, a massive part of his life. And, you know, even you know, I know last year he he's got a court in his back garden. He loves it. Yeah, it's still out there coaching young kids and you know I mean you you probably undersell it a little bit in terms of your career because then as we're coming up to the age of 15, for the rest of your junior career, which ends at 18, you actually reach three Grand Slam junior doubles finals, which is a great achievement, winning two of them. So win the Australian Open with David Sherwood, yeah, and Wimbledon with Martin Lee. Um, just talk to me a little bit here. Uh, when you when you start making that transition from 15 with having had good junior success, making that transition to the men's game, how did you find that? Because I I presume knowing you, I know you left school at 16. After GCC, yeah. Left 16. So, how did you find that transition then having had junior success, moving into some of the adult game? It's I start I started picking up injuries probably around that time, 16, 17. Um, I think I ended up having three or four surgeries, two on my groin, two on my wrist. And this is at 16, 17 years ago. Yeah, exactly. So up until that point, I was doing I was doing pretty well for sure. And I I definitely started to lose my way at that point. And which is not unheard of for a 16, 17-year-old. No, no. And I don't know where things would have would have ended up or what would have happened, but you know, I I got ill then at I think it was 18 years old. I got a a virus that attacked my lungs and and left my bronchioles scarred. And so my breathing's been difficult from that that point on, and it's nothing I can do anything about, yeah. Which is unfortunate because I'd like to be able to exercise a bit more, I'd like to be do to do other things. Yeah, but in a way, I kind of see it as a bit of a blessing because the decision was made for me. Okay, yeah. So because I was going to ask at 17, 18, it's quite a big thing to then have all those injuries to take on what you think your career might have been. Yeah, that there was no kind of decision basically. It wasn't, well, should I try, should I keep going, or should I stop? Yeah. And the decision was made for me. And and I think it would have been incredibly hard to have gone on, and very few players go on and and kind of have a have a strong professional career. Um, so yeah, I kind of see that as quite lucky. And when it when it happened initially, you're lost, obviously, because all you've done is tennis, you don't know what to do. Um so you had some lost years, then you reckon, between 18 and yeah, because it's haven't gone through education, haven't really followed that route. All your friends have gone off to university, done their A levels or whatever they're doing. Yeah. And you sort of feel like you're you're kind of behind it all at that stage. So I just started coaching in Suffolk, yeah, just locally. Um, it was the easiest way to earn some money. It was no no thought. And this was this isn't at the performance level, it was just kind of club coaching. Anything. And there was no thought behind it other than I need to earn a little bit of money. Yeah, yeah. Um, and that's how it started basically. Yeah. And then I mean, you you your coaching career, you've had some great success. You started quite young. So I wanted to know how how you kind of moved into I'm still young, Johnny. Yeah, we're all very young, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're all very young. But how did you move from the club coaching into performance coaching? So I obviously had some contacts, yeah, still. Um, and I could still I could still hit pretty well, obviously, because I hadn't stopped for long. I just couldn't very good volleys. Yeah, crisp volleys. I just couldn't be running around and kind of playing singles points and and whatever ridiculously to a high level. So so my my playing level was still pretty good, and and I I I I got some some jobs initially as a as a kind of just a traveling friend. Yeah. You know, you you're still hitting well. With Alexander Stevenson being one of the first Alexander Stevenson, um uh Kelly Simpkin was a British player, Lawrence Thielerman. Um, guy made final of Queens. Yeah. Um and Alexander Stevenson reached the semi-final of Wimbledon. She reached the semis of Wimbledon, but but I joined her a few years after. She struggled a bit after that, actually. Yeah. And I joined her a couple of years after that, and she was sort of on her way back and ended up making got got to top 20 in the world, which was our highest career ranking. Great for you to be around at the start of your coaching. So what's your role there? Traveling coach, hitting it. Traveling hitting, yeah. I mean, you're doing some of the coaching because alongside somebody more experienced. A guy called Ray Ruffles, okay. Fantastic tennis coach. He um was an ex-player himself, Australian player, yeah, and uh kind of worked at the Australian Institute of Sport and predominantly did a lot of work with the Woodies. Yeah. Mark uh Woodford and Todd Woodbridge through their whole career. Yeah, pedigree. And a great coach, experienced at that time. And he was working in women's tennis for the USTA and traveling a lot, uh, supporting a group of girls. So he would offer support to Alexandra. So I got to kind of work alongside Ray. So you got to get to learn from him at that start. Another really important kind of part of my coaching journey. Like I said, I've been privileged to have been around a lot of experienced uh coaches that I really respect. And how did you how how long did you spend in that kind of hitting, traveling hitting role before you started taking the reins fully on a player? Um I think it would have been 18 months to two years in your way. Good question. I I'm guessing early 20s. 20. 20, that's something like that. For the people listening, that's that's a young age to kind of be exposed to players that are playing Grand Slams and international tennis. That's a good experience from a very young age. Yeah, it's it's incredible, and I'm incredibly lucky to have had that opportunity. And so yeah, when you moved into kind of taking the reins for it's all a bit blurry, Johnny. But I I think maybe Kelly was the first person I then started working with who'd been training over in the States and wanted to pray professionally. So, you know, we were training out of the BT Cellnet Centre then. Yeah. Um do they do they pay for that kind of uh promotion there? Do we get any money for that? We can try. We'll reach out. Yeah, and um it was yes, and it was out of there where the LTA were training at the time, so my face was being seen again, I was around, and uh Keith Waldridge at the time offered me then a job on the back of Kelly uh coaching Anne Kyothong at the LTA. Yeah, and kind of that led one thing on to the other, and I spent a number of years then working at the LTA. Well, but just before you went to the LTA, I'm gonna let everyone know you were coaching my brother for a period. Yes. So you'd you spent uh six to eight weeks working with Jamie when he played Wimbledon. He had a mammoth five-set match against Nicholas Lepenti. Still painful, though. Still painful, still painful points. He had match points and Lepenti would have been seeded probably in the top 15 at least, I think. Yeah. Um but Jamie definitely has said to me a few times, having had a long career himself, that he loved working with you at the time and he was he was a little bit gutted when you when you moved on to the LTA. Um but for him who'd who'd had a number of coaches and a long career, he he said that those those years those weeks with you were superb. No, it was fun. And um yeah, he he started to play really well. Yeah, he was playing his best stuff. It was it was one of those kind of situations you'd like to have continued, but the opportunity at the LTA came along. Yeah. Um and I was there for a number of years before I went, I got offered a job actually uh with with the Australian Institute of Sport and Tennis Australia. Yes, I remember, yeah. And Brent Larkam, another coach who I kind of highly respect and and I learnt a ton from. I was so lucky to go over there. What were you doing for the men's you were working with a bit the younger? Predominant. I was there five, six years, so four or five of those were on the on the men's side, and then the last year was actually on the women's side. Yeah. And I think it was really important early in my coaching career. Actually, I probably was equal. Okay. You know, the time I spent coaching women and the kind of time I spent coaching men. And and I do think kind of moving between both was really good for me, dealing with the different personalities. I was gonna say, what's the difference is then main that you found from working with men versus women? Look, the game's slightly different, but coaching doesn't change. Yeah. You know, the the the job of a coach is obviously the connection with the player is the most important thing. Yes. So you're trying to make that connection with whoever they are to to to kind of understand how they how they learn, how you motivate them, how you can instill belief. But the tennis is there's certain things that are slightly different, but if if you're watching tennis, it's still tennis. Yeah. What do they do well? How are they winning their points? How can they win more points? How can we defend this uh weakness a little bit more? What how are we going to build the player basically around what you're watching? So for me, although the the sort of strategy or tactics behind it might be slightly different, yeah, it's still tennis.

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Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Um, and and you're looking at the individual and how they are as a player and what makes them successful and where they maybe struggle. Yeah. And when you came back from Tennis Australia, you started working a little bit more individually with some of the players. So I've gotten you had a good relationship with Kyle Edmund. Yes. Um what he he he jumped quite a bit of rankings-wise when he was with you. Talk to me a little bit about his journey. So I I think I started coaching Kyle at 19. Yeah. Kyle would have been 19. And Greg, who I think you've had on the previous episode, um, was coaching uh Kyle at the time. Yes. And asked if I could come in and help. And it then transitioned that I was coaching Kyle full-time. And I think we worked together for 18 months, an incredibly successful 18 months. And he won some challenger events and exactly. Broke top 100 for the first time. I forget what his ranking was when he when we started together, but he was playing futures. So it was a it was a really good kind of transitional period qualifying for his first slams, yeah, winning his first Grand Slam main draw matches. Um, and so we had those 18 months together. And I think when I look back on everything that I've done as a coach, that that area where you're kind of transitioning from a good junior and trying to establish yourself as a senior player is the part I enjoy the most. And it's actually most of the conversations I've had have been around that transition from juniors to seniors. And we've had a couple of people that were saying how difficult it is sometimes to move from futures to challenges to the tour event and not to spend too much time at that fut if you spend too much time at that futures event, it can be a bit difficult. So that yeah, so Kyle jumping through those levels was a big, big part of your coaching, I'm sure. No, 100%, 100%. And and it it is the area that I really feel motivated and and probably where I'm at my best. Yeah. And then moving on, and I know that Cameron Norrie, who who's had a great career, he you you were kind of shaping a lot of his transition as well from juniors, but he he had a slightly different route than Kyle did. And I know how important you were in some of the decisions he made, but you maybe talk to us a little bit how you helped him transition from juniors to seniors. So I first started working with Cam, I think he would have been about 17, again, a very successful junior. He'd been top 25, was he? Top 10 junior and um was starting to transition into those kind of future tournaments and um it it reached the point at that stage where Cam was, you know, do I do I go to US college or do I continue to play? And and and my sort of feeling and Cam's feeling at the time was US college is probably a good route for him. Which which wasn't a super it wasn't very popular at that time. Nowadays a lot of kids are going to America, but Cam would have been one of the big success earlier success stories, I think, of the British guys. Yeah, and I think it's again it's changed that helped change the perceptions, particularly in this country. Yes. Where a lot of players now see it as a viable route and a route to turn professional.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

Yeah.

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And you know, I I didn't, I'll be honest with you, I didn't know much about it at the time. And and Cam much about the college system, you mean? Yeah, the college system, and Cam made a really smart choice. He went to TCU in uh Dallas Fort Worth and uh David Ruditi and Devin Bowen were the were the two coaches there, and he hit the jackpot. Yeah, I mean that those guys are amazing, they they do an incredible job. And this was at the time where I was starting to travel with Kyle. So we went to uh TCU to train, and I couldn't believe the setup that was there. Facilities and the the facilities, but not only the facilities, there were eight guys on the team, and and Kyle was probably ranked around 150 at the time. Uh Kyle, this was Kyle, yeah, and Kam was on the team there. Yeah, and so we went for a week in between tournaments and the States to train, and Kyle could probably Practice with the guy who was eight on the team, or the guy was one on the team, and still get a great practice. Yeah. The coaches were amazing, the facilit facilities were incredible. That the matches, the infrastructure, and the team environment. And from that day onwards, I was like, you know, we're missing a trick. In the UK. Yeah, British tennis is missing a trick here. Yeah. There's there's a pathway for development, which isn't for everybody. Yeah. Jack didn't go to college. Um, but you know, other players have decided to go that way. Yeah. And it's just an amazing opportunity with the right school, the right coaches. Uh, that you know, you're gonna struggle to find anywhere better. Yeah. I mean, nowadays, I was talking to this with Greg as well. When I was young, there's probably one or two British kids went to college in the States. Now we've got 50 plus kids that are going out to college scholarships, carrying on their tennis careers beyond 18, which I think is fantastic. But I always try and suggest to all the kids, you know, look at that option if you're not you're not making a career from it by the age of 18, which is massively rare, isn't it? It's it's the it's the few, really. So you and I know from knowing you personally, I know you stayed in contact with Cam for those years while he was there quite heavily. Yeah, so I I kind of always it wasn't part of my role at the time. There was nothing official at the LTA, whereas now we have a kind of official the job role there that Mark Hilton does, amazing job with um following up our top players, yeah, keeping the relationship with the coaches, tracking their development, helping them with opportunities here when they come back to the UK. And so with Cam, you're kind of doing that off your own back, really. I I I didn't want to feel like he was forgot. Yeah. You know, he's an incredible player and a great prospect. Yeah. And and I'd travel out there once or twice a year, yeah, go to TCU, spend time with the coaches, spend time with Cam, watch him play. Yeah. Um, and it it was, yeah, it was an amazing, amazing time for him. So he did four years out there? He ended up doing three. Three years. Okay, yeah. Right. And when he finished, did you so I know he spent a lot of time working with Faku, who's a great, great guy. Um, what what was your role within Cam's uh journey after college? So when when when Cam came out of college, obviously he was a top college player. Yeah. The as at the LTA, we are investing in his tennis. Yeah. And and when we're investing in players at that level, we have a uh a coach, a consultant coach who manages that investment, yeah, which is twofold. We're obviously looking at the money and how it's spent, yeah. And secondly, we're there as a consultant coach. So, you know, Faku Cam, his whole team, Vacek, um, you know, they've been unbelievably welcoming of me, you know, that they're so supportive. I was never feeling like I was treading on anyone's toes, my advice, my my opinion. You started traveling to a few tournaments with him at that time. Yeah, so so up until uh you know a few years ago, actually, when Jack started to get going really well, it was just hard to juggle, you know, doing weeks with Cam and coaching Jack full time. Um, but I you know, I I was always covering some weeks through the year and around a lot of the tournaments and watching him compete and speaking with talking about again, because obviously Cam's one of the most successful British tennis players we've had. What was his jump from rank, not ranking wise, but how long did it take him to come out of the challenger to the tour event? You know, I was actually having this discussion recently. Very few players, you know, can can kind of just they skip futures or skip a level, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:33

Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

You've got to go through the system. Yeah. You know, you're you're playing the futures, you've got to get through those, you go into the challenges or whatever. Yeah. The few players that do skip it are the exceptional talents. Top five, ten in the world. Exactly. They can move into challengers, start doing well, get some wildcard and big events, and they're off. The other players that can skip futures are guys like Cam. Yeah. So they basically do their development at US college rather than through the futures tour. Yeah, gotcha. So he he came out of school um that summer, uh played over the grass, and then lit up the US Challenger kind of circuit. So his transition from college into top 100 was really quick. Was it? Yeah. Okay. And what what what I'm I'm a huge fan of Cam, but what were his key uh positives in his game that made allowed him to because that there's so many players that don't make that jump into the top 100? But what what what did he have that separated him from others? It's like he he's a fascinating kind of player and and journey to look at. And and and the one thing, you know, he's he's obviously an incredible athlete, yeah. He's an incredible competitor. Um, but the one thing that stood out with me through Cam, especially you know, when he when he won Indian Wells, yeah, semis a Wimbledon. That's pretty good. I I turn up and the guy was never putting in a bad practice session. Really? His his work ethic, his days were long, yeah. Not only on court, what he was doing physically with his body in great shape, he he never wasted a shot.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

And and it sounds like a cliche, right? Yeah, but seeing it happen is that he was just he was doing that. Yeah, you know, there's levels, right? Yeah, yeah, and and and he was fully engaged and present in everything that he was doing. Did you spot that when he was a kid? Yeah, like I I'll be honest with you, I saw I saw a really good tennis player, but I didn't know. Yeah. And I think if you ask, maybe if you ask Cam, maybe he didn't know. Yeah. Um, there was obviously a tennis player in there, but that that growth that happened with him, no doubt college and the people and Faku and Devon and David, yeah, the people that have been around him, his parents, all of this plays a huge kind of role in that. But there's something in great players where uh kind of a uh you know, they flick the switch. Yeah. And it's like, okay, this is what I want. This is my dream. And you think he made that kind of flick of a switch when he was at college, maybe? Yeah, and then when he starts I've probably it was kind of it was a journey, right? Yeah, yeah. And then oh, I just go on and win an Indian Wells, semis of Wimbledoness and cracking. Okay, like I'm actually pretty good at this, yeah. And and I want to be, I want to find out how good I can be. Yeah. And as soon as that moment happens, then it gets exciting. Yeah. And then moving on to the last player that you were working with full-time is Jack Draper. He had a massive jump and an improvement when you were working with him. How long were you working with him in total? Uh it was about four and a half years. About four and a half years. Yeah, in the end, yeah. So again, it's that journey coming through the challenges. And so you took when you when you were working with him, he was challenger level, future level? I think Jack was around 330, 340 in the world, something like that. And then he just shot up in that period. And I've been around Jack's tennis before that. Obviously, you know, his previous coaches did an amazing job. Justin Sharon, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh Ryan Jones. Yes. But I spent a lot more time, obviously, with Ryan and Jack and watched that journey. Yeah. You know, he's a great junior, made finer junior. So when he was working with Ryan, you were already kind of having a relationship. I was doing the same job there, the consultant coach managing the LTA's investment into Jack at that time, uh, with Ryan, who was coaching him. So I was I was kind of fully aware of Jack and where he was and the relationship um with Ryan obviously finished. Yeah, very successful and a really important part of his journey. And as the person closest to him at the time, initially it was just look, he needs somebody to help him out. Right, yeah. So that that's how it started. I I went on and covered until we were going to find a coaching situation for Jack. And it covered him, and then he's playing the challenger level tournaments now. He's playing challenges and it felt good. Yeah. I think he enjoyed it, hopefully. I was enjoying it. I kind of really believed in him, and he asked me if I'd, you know, be prepared to coach him on a full-time basis, which is how it started. Yeah, so you say he took over when he was about 350, he went on to get to a semi-final of US Open in 2024, and then reached number four in the world last year in 2025. Um, again, I'm gonna ask you a similar sort of question. What did you see in him? Um, just similar as I asked you about Cam, what did you see in him that allowed him to jump up to to ranking of world number four? I think it's the same. I think it's in them. Right, yeah, yeah. They've got to bring it out. Yeah. And and and I think I'm not sure it was entirely there. And and I don't know what Jack would say about it, you know, that they the the the the the the belief, the vision to see it's possible, I think is really important. And our job as a coach is to to kind of help facilitate that right in a way. That the the the journey is possible, and what are we gonna do? What steps are we gonna take that's gonna allow you to try and achieve these goals? And obviously the the transformation I saw in him over four and a half years was amazing. Yeah, well, his ranking would say that as well. Yeah, but and it's not possible without it, right? But you know how how much more professional he became, how much more driven he became, his belief, yeah, you know, it's really high. Yeah, his belief in himself. Um, it the sacrifice that he makes, it's his life. Yeah. Tennis is from when he wakes up to when he goes to bed. Yeah. And it's an easy thing to talk about again, but to actually really live that, yeah, I think very few players do.

SPEAKER_02 31:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

So, you know, for for me to have been around that and to help try and instill some of those things and be a part of that a privilege, right?

SPEAKER_02 31:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Um, because I don't think these athletes are, you know, then it's not everyone. Not everyone, no, exactly. 100%. And and you need some luck. Yeah. You know, we we we go back to Ray Ruffles, who we talked about earlier when I was a young coach.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

You know, we sat in the long bar at Wimbledon back in the day, the old long bar, and we're having a beer. I remember the long bar. Having a beer at the end of the day, tucked away, and Ray's like, what do you think the secret of being a great coach is? And I'm like, Well, you know, understanding the player, making a connection, you know, awareness of standards, good tactical knowledge. He's sitting there laughing at me as he drinks his beer. And I'm I'm like, Well, what is it, Ray? Yeah. He said, The secret of becoming a great coach is finding the best players. That's absolutely true. And then I think it it undersells the coach a little bit, but he's right. But I I heard Peter Lungren say a very similar thing. Yeah. He was saying about the taking taking players on at the right time and actually you know look into the when they're ascending and not descending. No, not every coach can do that. Yes. You've still got to have the ability and the skill and the connection and and to to kind of really get in tune with them to bring the best out in them. Yeah. But there's plenty of other coaches that can do that in the world. It's not unique, right? Um, but that it's in them or it's not to some point, I think, with these great players. Yeah. And is that quite easy to spot? Again, just like just to see at the beginning of your coaching relationship with a player, how quickly can you see that they've got that? I think it depends where they're at. Yeah. You know, it's uh to you know, what stage of the journey are they at? Yeah. And and and how are they feeling about themselves? How are they feeling about their tennis? What age they are, what's been happening. Yeah. I I I wouldn't say I wouldn't say it's it's really easy to spot all the time. And I'd say with other players, it's probably quite evident, depending on when you arrive. Yeah. You know, like Jamie, you your brother, great friend of ours, coming into Jack now, he's gonna s he's gonna sniff that straight away. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely something he's got. Four and a half years ago, I wouldn't say I was sniffing it to the same level. Yeah. So I I do think it's it's timing and I mean just the small amount of time I spent around Jack, he's got incredible hunger. Yeah. Incredible hunger to be a top player. Yeah. And and so I think it is timing dependent sometimes. Your coaching journey and career, again, I find it very interesting how people take different routes into their coaching career. So I wanted to speak to you a little bit about where did you learn some of the because you've got you've had a long career of coaching now. Where did you learn some of the skills that you kind of use now in your coaching career? Qualifications versus learning on the job. I think qualifications are important, yeah. But it's to give you an understanding. Yeah, it's certainly not what shaped me as a tennis coach. What shaped me as a tennis coach is actually getting out there and doing it. Yes. The one thing I've always done is I've got on the road and I've traveled.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

And I've committed to players and I've done it, you know, 52 weeks a year. Yeah. And and that experience, there's no um, you know, there's no shortcut to it. You can have all the all the theory in the world, yeah, but without actually doing it, it's impossible to coach because the secret of coaching is connecting. Yeah. You have to build trust, you have to understand the player. And that's actually my my next question is how do you build that trust with a player? Um, I think integrity is a big one. Yeah. Role modeling. Yeah. You know, humble. Yeah. You know, we're nobody's perfect. You know, and for us to pretend that we know everything. I'm pretty perfect. You look, you look it. Um you basically got to show them that you're their best interest is at heart.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

It's not about me, right? I'm not, yeah, this is my job and this is why I get out of bed, but I get out of bed to do this because I want to I want to see you develop and I want to try and help you improve as a person, not just a tennis player, and understand life a little bit and understand what's going to make you tick as a tennis player. And everyone's different, yeah, yeah. And everybody's different. And I do think my my skill, probably my best skill as a as a coach, is finding that connection. Uh, you know, you chuck me on a court with a player that I don't know, or you give me a month with somebody who I don't know, yeah, I'm not gonna be anywhere near as effective as, okay, let's have three or four months here.

SPEAKER_02 36:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

We're gonna, we're gonna get out there, we're gonna go travel, we're gonna train, we're gonna do things properly. I'm gonna get to understand you, you're gonna get to understand me. Yeah. And once I've done that and and we start to build that relationship and we start to build that trust, I think that's when I'm at my best. Gonna ask you, what's been your toughest coaching moment? You know, re recently I've got to the point where I I felt a bit tired. Yeah. Like I I I don't think a lot of people that are listening into this are fully understanding of like you've just said they're being on the road 52 weeks of the year. It takes a lot, right? It's intense. Yeah. And and you're constantly giving to somebody else. Yeah. It's not about you. I'm giving the whole time. And the pressures that come with it, you know, you've got to it's well, you know, we we we we obviously, you know, as a coach, ultimately they have to win. Yeah. We don't talk about that, but the reality is if results, yeah, if a player doesn't win, you lose your job typically. Yeah, and that's the way it should be. Yeah. And sometimes it's a bit too soon, sometimes you you know that there is a journey, and you know, so it it's you know, I've done it, you know, pretty much from the age of 20. I travelled a lot before that as a player, and probably the hardest point was more recently, where you know, I'm working with Jack and loving it. Yeah. And you know, it's what you aspire to do. You want to work with a top player and want to have gone on that journey, but it also, you know, I'm not getting any younger and I've got my family at home and and you're traveling, you're committing, and I kind of probably just emotionally drained from it all in the end, you know. The years caught up with me. It's all behind the scenes that people don't see that sort of stuff. Exactly. Yeah. Um, and in terms of your philosophies and your beliefs in terms of coaching, how have they changed over the years? Because you 20 years, um well, first off, if you can let us say what what what would you say are your key? Probably didn't have one when I was younger. No. No, you going with the flow. Yeah, you are, yeah. Yeah, you are, you're just out there and looking at the player that you've got and and seeing what's ahead of you, right? Um, I'm I'm I'm pretty simple in the way that I I think I see the game quite well. Yeah. Um without connecting with the player and building up the trust. I think it's impossible to coach effectively. Yeah. Yeah. So that that's a given. Yeah. I think having that relationship, building the trust is at any point. That's the first thing that you've got to hit. And then it is very much, you know, it's player dependent. I'm looking at them and I'm looking at the whole picture. You know, you're looking at the mentality, the physicality, uh, the technique, the tactics, how they are under pressure, how well do they travel, how do they deal with adversity, what stands up, what doesn't stand up. And and so you're assessing that player initially and and and then trying to formulate you can't tackle everything, right? Yeah. So where am I gonna get quick wins here that are gonna give me a bit of a kind of trust, help that trust issue again? What are the bigger picture things we need to be chipping away at? And and making that list of what what are we going after right now? Yeah. Versus I've got all these things in my head, yeah. I'm not gonna tackle it all, right? Yeah. I'm gonna approach things like kind of systematically and go on that journey. On that journey, I'm I'm very again, I'm just sort of jumping in here, like you've had such a long career of coaching, but kind of the when you've been working with players around the two, three hundred ranking, you're doing it all yourself pretty much as a coach. As you move up, you're then probably move getting a bigger team involved. What are the challenges with that or the differences? Even with Kyle and Jack, you know, I was the you know, Ian Prangley, who, you know, great friend of mine, somebody I work with in Australia. I brought Ian in to help with physio, SNC, yeah, Kyle, and I did the same with Jack. Yeah. And but you know, Prang is at that point in his life, didn't want to be, he's got his family and everything, didn't want to be traveling the whole time. So it was just, you know, the the travel weeks and and a lot of weeks, I'm the one delivering everything. Yeah. Obviously not the physio, yeah, but the SNC program. Yeah. You know, I'm taking them in the gym, I'm making sure they're doing everything, yeah. That's the thing. Their strength, their conditioning. Yeah. You know, it's us. Yeah. It was just me and me and Jack, me and Carl on the road. Yeah. Obviously, then you prioritise certain weeks or training blocks where it was really important. But at that point, you're doing it all. Where Jack's got to now, you've got a full team around you, actually. Yeah. Um, who are taking care of a lot of that. The tennis itself, what do you think are the biggest lessons it's taught you? That's a great question. I do get one or two in there sometimes. Yeah. You must have thought hard about that one. Huh? Um I don't it is a really good question. I mean I mean the one thing I was really clear on, and this hasn't changed, like from when I I think people start judging tennis people, whether it's a coach, but particularly players on success.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

You're judged on they're winning. A.e. I'll show them a lot of attention. Yeah. And you know, the w the one thing I wanted to try and make sure that I didn't do as a coach was that. Yeah. So regardless of results and and outcomes with players that you still treat them as a person. Yeah. And you try and um you try and build them for a life post-tennis. Yeah. Regardless of how successful their careers are, that they can actually step into life post-tennis and crack on pretty normally and instill some good some good values. Um, you know, probably what it's taught me the most is the the importance of psychology with people, yeah. And how you try and get the best out of that individual. Yeah. Then that that's the fascinating part because everybody's different. And I think, yeah, and I'm saying this just because you're here, but that's been, I think, big strength watching you coaching over these years is is that working on that psychol psychological side of it. Be good to watch. Yeah. It's it's fun, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know. And what would you what would you be doing if you weren't a tennis coach? I'd do my my art, Johnny. That's a leading question. That's a leading question. Beyond tennis, everyone. There we go. Beyond tennis. Yeah, I'd I'd I'd love to I'd love to open a little gallery. Yeah. Potter around, you know, sell a few bits of art, yeah, a few conversations. Well, it leads us into our next sessions. You know, open the gallery at 11 every morning, leave at three. Sounds good. That's what I'd like to do.

SPEAKER_02 42:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:58

Well, that leads us into our next section. So beyond tennis, we we we talk a little bit about your interests off court. Um, what people might not know is I I'm a big lover of art, and that has come from you introducing me. Pent your glasses. Pent the glasses, the artistic glasses I've got, and we've both, if the camera can see, we've got our artistic socks on today. These are actually a gift from James. Um, pretty suspect socks, but um Yayo Tosama's. They are my Tosama's Yayo Kusama socks. So, yeah, you you got me into art uh many years ago. Where did you start developing your interest of arts? Because it's a bit different from being a tennis coach. Well, it's not very academic, I'd have to say. My my love of art is certainly not academic, not studied. I but I just find it interesting. Yeah, and and obviously I was privileged enough with tennis to be traveling around and going to lots of places. And the thing I always like to do was go to museums, galleries. Yeah. I'm a day off, I'd go to MoMA or the Met or Tate or wherever I was around the world. It's something to do. Yeah. And I can't. I always enjoyed that. Um I kind of had a strange link between tennis players and art, yeah, artists. Yeah. As in no tennis, no two tennis players look the same. True, yeah. Yeah. Like it's the same boundaries of the sport, right? The same shots, dimensions, but everybody's individual, the way they look. And I kind of like that interpretation interpretation and crossover with artists. And and and was it was it is that quite an early part of your art interest? You'd already made the link to the stuff. Yeah, that's what really fascinated me because it's like we could both sit here now and draw you know that cup. I could do it very badly. But but we're both going to do it differently and interpret it differently. So it's that individuality that was coming out, and that was the thing that kind of intrigued me. It's the person behind the art as much as it is the art. What's their journey? Why have they got to this point? Why are they painting in that way? What you know, what inspired them? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

So the story behind the artist was starting to interest you.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

Really kind of fascinated me, yeah. And and talk about the link between creativity and coaching. Is there any link, do you think, between your coaching career and the creativity of an artist? I'm gonna say I'm not very creative. I've I've seen you around the net. You know, your volleys are pretty creative. Yeah, I mean I don't know. I I I think artists probably can experiment a lot more. I think you need it, you need to have that individuality in tennis. But you know, the the the basics of tennis are still the basics of tennis. Like people get away from that. It's not for me, it's not that complicated. Yeah, and people like to make tennis overcomplicated. Definitely seen a lot of that. Yeah. So, you know, it co and coaching's the same. I think it's uh we're getting back onto the coaching now, but it's it's incredibly simple. The complexity comes in the delivery, yeah, not in the theory, yeah. In how you deliver it, how you get the result, yeah, how you you find a way to to to kind of problem solve. That's where the the the delivery of that to get the result. Yeah, the actual theory is quite easy. I think a lot of people understand that.

SPEAKER_02 46:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

Um, but that that that was the initially so so you so yeah, so now you kind of get a bit of an interest in the art world. You've moved on in the last few years to start in buying and selling some pieces. I've bought some artworks off you. How did you move in from just visiting the odd gallery at a tennis tournaments into right, I'm gonna start buying some pieces. Don't ever check the prices of those, Johnny. Don't ever check they're still a bargain, they're a bargain, they're still on my wall. They're a bargain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um it basically started. I had bought my first kind of house and some just a little bit disposable income at the time. I was like, it'd be quite nice to put some pictures on the walls. Yeah, yeah. And started following. I was like, well, rather than just going to any old gallery and buying something, why don't I try and buy something that's historically got some kind of importance and maybe financially, you know, I'm not getting my pants pulled down. Yeah, yeah. And that's where were you getting this knowledge? I was just following Christie's auctions, auctions, yeah. Phillips, all the auctions basically. And every one I was religiously kind of glued. Oh, okay, this artist, uh okay, what are they doing? Buying books on them, yeah, reading about them, kind of exploring then, you know, whether they, you know, the art other artists who were down in St. Ives at that time. And so kind of my my knowledge just grew from there. But like I said, it's certainly not an academic, it's it's just a passion, it's something I like, and and and you know, I've I've looked at thousands and thousands of pictures now, and particularly with the artists that I enjoy and I really look out for, you know, you start to spot, oh, that's a really good one. Yeah. And what what what's what type of art are you mainly interested in? Um so British, yeah, mainly British. Um, anything really from the kind of 1910, 1920s through to contemporary, okay. Which is kind of present day. Yeah. Um but historically. So the St Ives gang that was around about then, wasn't it? Exactly, sort of 40s, 50s, 60s, probably when it was mainly kind of kicking off down there. Um, so I bought quite a few of the St Ives artists, but lots of different love abstract art. Right. I I like I remember you were quite very focused on the British ones in the early days of your buying and selling. Yeah, a lot of 50s British abstract art, you know, even some of the earlier, more avant-garde artists who went over to Paris. Yeah. Kind of the 20s and 30s. Um, and and the reason I liked it again is because you know, abstract art hit the UK a little bit later. Yeah. And probably and and Europe and and it was never really as accepted, I would say, that these artists didn't care. It's like, this is what I want to do, this is the journey. I'm that's what made me interesting because you you've always been interested in the story of the artist. Whenever I've spoken to you about it the last 10 years, the the story of the artist. Not following rules. No, but you like like it's similar to what you're talking about in your tennis coaching. You you'd want to know the story behind the player and why they're coming to certain decisions and why their output is Yeah, exactly. That's exactly it. That's what I think that's what interests the person, right? Is what interests me the most. Yeah. And how how are you balancing, and I know because you you're always on your phone, but how how are you balancing the elite sports world and the art world? Not very well. And probably a different answer if uh if your wife Yeah, it's just I need more time for the art stuff. Yeah. So it's a passion. Yeah. You know, I've got my own collection, and I I do buy and sell um some work sometimes, got a separate kind of pot of money for that. But it's it I'm just playing at it, really. It's it's like such a some it's a distraction, something I enjoy. I know there's a lot of people in British tennis that if they've got any art questions, they'll always come to you. Yeah. And anybody who's um, you know, looking to buy some paintings. We'll put a link. Yeah, we'll put a link to his Instagram. I'll give you a very good price. Just ask Johnny. Very good. Um, Ipswich.

unknown 50:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

So Ipswich is the Tractor Boys is your team. Karen McKenna. Doing well at the minute? We're doing well. We're doing well. I'm a Millwall fan, so you're doing just a little bit better than us. Yeah. Yeah. Not surprisingly, yeah. I'm gonna ask you. So the Ipswich days, because I know you're a big fan. Yeah. Um, what's the golden era in your time following Ipswich? Oh, it was uh it was when we were in Europe, you know, George Burley. Lee days, yeah. I mean, it's again, we're going back, my memory's shocking, but we we did second year, we we got into Europe first year. We finished what fifth in the Premier League or whatever. I think it's Marcus 90s or yeah, Marcus Janging them in banging them in. We finished fifth, I think. Yeah. Could get it wrong, and then I just bramble. We're in you uh a bit later that we're in Europe, and then we got in again though, because we won the fair play. Actually, I think we went down. Yeah. I think maybe we went down. So we we we were still in back-to-back years, and I did every away tie. Did you? There's only two of us, two of our friends, me and Paul Rose, shout out for Bombie. Yeah, yeah. And um, we went to Helsingborg, we went to Moscow, we went to Belgrade, we went to Luxembourg, Milan. Yeah. Um, I'm probably missing somewhere. But you know, those trips were for me, that was I was still back in Suffolk, yeah, you know, predominantly at that time. Um, so going to the games and you know, I don't get as get to go as much as I want now with obviously I've been travelling a ton, but I still try and get down, you know, whenever I can. Um okay, someone asked you to give me uh your five aside team of all-time Ipswich players. Oh goalkeeper, who's your favourite goalkeeper of all time? Oh, that's not an easy one, is it?

SPEAKER_00 51:42

Nobody good or no, no.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

Uh I mean all favourite players or if you just give me maybe top five players that you're your favourite players. Top top five. I mean, I I loved Jason Dezel. Duzelle, yeah. Back in the day. Chris, Chris Kwomia. Yeah. Um, Marcus Schuart, he scored ridiculous amount of goals, didn't he? Yeah. Yeah, and we've got Leif Davis right now. Yeah. He left back. Um he left back, gets up and down really well. Um, I mean, we've had John Walk. Walk.

SPEAKER_02 52:21

Yeah, the long mullet.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

Yeah, I mean, because I mean he went through all those kind of all the kind of glory years, but played long. Yeah. I think he was at Ipswich, then went to Liverpool. Yeah, came back to Ipswich. So when I first started watching Ipswich, John Walk was there, the big moustache. Because your son is an absolute encyclopedia of football knowledge when I speak to him. Yeah, he's better than me. He'd be able to give you his top five for the last hundred years. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. He's obsessed. Um, so yeah, I mean, so many. I mean, that's current team, Matasiwa, the midfield, he's doing a great job. Yeah, yeah. Great, great job. Well, thanks, Trotz. That's uh that's kind of covered your your tennis and your beyond tennis career. What we're gonna do now is we do a little match tie break with everyone. Okay, so we're gonna give you seven questions. I'll give you the same seven questions I ask all the guests. First thing that comes to your mind. Um you think about it too hard, but um, this is our match tie break. I'm ready. Okay, so number one, who is the greatest tennis player of all time? I want to say Federer, but I'm gonna say Djokovic. Number two, who is your favorite tennis player of all time? Federer. Federer. Good. Uh number three, favorite shot to hit the tweener. The tweener. Never see you make one, mate. Um best player not to win a grand slam in history. Rios. Amazing. Pretty much everyone's given that answer. Rios, he was a legend. The next one I'd uh Zverev. Zverev, yeah. I was a great legend for Zverev, yeah. Yeah, it's out of those two. But Rios was frightening, wasn't it? He was. Yeah, but Zverev's had a longer career, I think. Yeah. You know, that's why it's it's not necessarily straightforward. Okay, good, good, good. Okay, who's the best non-professional tennis player you've met or heard of? The person that wasn't a professional player that you saw playing, maybe a celebrity that was the best at tennis. It's a difficult one. Well, yeah, yeah. Uh Maradona. Maradona. I've seen some clips of him on YouTube. Yeah, looks good. One-handed backhand screen, yeah. I've seen that, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Very good. Who's your dream doubles partner? Apart from you. Apart from me. I'm not an option. Oh, you you're out? I'm out of the options, yeah. Although we can play paddles. We can play paddle pretty well. Yeah, we're pretty good there, guys. I'm right there, yeah. Um, dream doubles partner. Um, do you know Johnny Mack? Johnny Mack, yeah. You're gonna get some titles. You're gonna get some titles, he's not gonna miss many volumes. Make me look good. Okay, slightly different one. What genre of music do you listen to before a match? It's been a long time since I played. Yeah. I mean, I I love my music, as do you, Johnny. Yeah. Um I like my 90s grunge. Yeah. Whether I'd listen to it before. So yeah, I'm looking for something. What sort of genre of music would fire you up? Something with a good beat, I think. Yeah. You know, kind of like got a good little rhythm going. House music. Yeah, I think so. Fire you up.

SPEAKER_02 55:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:13

Good. Next one. One rule in tennis you would change tomorrow. Ooh. Change. Only one. I think I mean that there's plenty. But the first one that springs to mind is I wouldn't have a change like a change of ends after one game. Continuous play. Well, three games, wait until you know, third game. Okay. Oh, so not have a change of ends. Just walk around the other end. I mean, nobody does anything. Just stay, play. Yeah. Get rid of the warm-up. Get rid of the warm-up? Yeah, or shorten it at least. I mean, like, you know, there's lots of things I think that you could look at.

SPEAKER_02 55:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:46

Good. And then lastly, who would play you in a film about your life? It's a good one, isn't it? Go on. Who would you play? Who would be playing you in a film? Um remember those people watching. Jimmy Bullard.

unknown 55:59

Jimmy Bullard.

SPEAKER_01 56:01

Okay. Didn't expect that one. Yeah? Yeah. Jimmy Bullard. Yeah, when I had the long hair. Yeah. You know. Well, I think people won't remember. I remember you with the long hair as a kid. I'd I used to call you Carol Paborski. He could play it. Carol Paborski. I don't think that's a reference that people remember, but you did look like Carol Paborski. Great player. Thanks. That's your match tie break. Great stuff. Good stuff. Okay. Now, lastly, we're gonna I've got another seven questions. No, so now we've got I've got quiz, which I do with everyone again, but I've curated a quiz around your career. Okay. So this is a testing of the memory. Typically, some of the tennis players I've spoken to remember quite a lot. It's quite blurry. It's quite blurry for you, James. That conversation we've just had, I think you might struggle with some of these, but let's give it a go. So, question number one. You won Wimbledon Junior Doubles in 1995. I thought you were going to ask me the year at age 15 with Martin Lee. Can you remember who you beat in the final and what score it was? We beat Mariano Puerta and Alejandro Hernandez. Very good. Now, can you give me the score? 7, 5, 6, 2. 7, 6, 6, 4. Very close. Good though. So half a point there. Alexandra Stevenson came through Qualies to reach semis at Wimbledon. Who did she beat in the quarterfinals? I wasn't with her then. You weren't with her then. This is a very good rate, wasn't there? And I'm supposed to remember this? Yeah. I'll give you a clue. She's Australian. I'm going to say it's 1999. Yeah, I didn't have the year down there, but 1999. Australian girl. I'll give you a clue. She does a bit of commentary work now at the Australian. Trainer Dokich. Dockich, very good. Very good. 0.25. 0.25 for that one. Actually, I'm not going to give you any points for that one. Next one. You reached third round singles of US Open Juniors. Who did you play and what was the score? You remember who you lost to in the third round of the juniors of the US Open. I haven't got the year. I do remember who I played. You remember who you played? Mariana Zabaletta. Mariana Zabaletta is correct. Can you tell me the score? Five and two. Five and two. One and four. But you got the you got the I'll give you another half point for that one. Yeah. Good. Good. Yeah. This is not, I think this is one of the last ones of your playing career, but you won Australian Open junior doubles in 1997 with David Sherwood. Who did you beat in the final? Wesley Whitehouse. Yeah. Louis Voslo. McDonald. Jakko van der Westhausen. Ah, Yacko. It was Wesley Whitehouse. And again, can you tell me the final score? Five and two. Not getting any of these. Okay, uh 7-6-6-3. So one of the next question. One of the players you played in ITF junior events, who reached the highest ranking of any other players that you played in juniors? Or all ITF junior events? Can you remember? Tavim Elise. Tavim Elise. Not the right answer. He reached 21. Oh sorry, no, he reached 19, I've got you. 19. You played somebody who went who went on to get to number 12 in the world. NASU? Also, no. No. What was his ranking? He's a 20, I think, as well. Was he? Number 12 in the world, somebody that you played. Country? Slovakia or Slovenia? One of those. Dominic Herbati. Dominic Herbati, very good. Good memory. Good memory. Okay, so you coached Jack Draper to US Open semi-final in 2024. Who did he beat in the quarters and what was the score? This is only two years ago, so. So you'd like to think you'd remember this. Demon R. Demon R is the right answer, yep. Score. Scores you're actually doing terribly on, I've got to be honest. Straight sets. Yes, straight sets. But we do need an answer of score. I really want you to get one correct. No, I've got no chance. Five. Five, three, and four. Not bad. Three, five, and two. Six, three, seven, five, six, two. And lastly, you coached Cameron Norrie for a large part of his career. What is Cameron's GB Davis Cup singles record? Oh, I remember his first singles match. Can I get a point for that? You can do. Because you haven't got any other points. GB Baptist or a gout in Spain. Oh, very that was a that was a fantastic result. Really? So we know he's got one win. His Davis Cup single uh out of how many? How many times? He's played 18 singles ties. Matches, sorry. 18 singles matches. I'm gonna go 11 and 7, 11 wins, 7 losses. 10-8. Don't think we've had anyone who's done worse on the quizzes. I'm pretty good. I actually felt like I did alright. No, I don't think we've had everyone we've had has done better, actually. Um, but good. Thanks, James. Thank you, Johnny. Did you enjoy yourself? A wonderful. Was it what you expected? Even better. Even better. Well, thanks for watching, guys, and tune in for the next episode of Beyond Tennis.