SPEAKER_02 0:00

But people said to my mum, we would be at tournaments in the UK and the national coaches at the time, luckily they're not about anymore. Yeah. But they would sort of say, no, he's not he's not good enough about him, he's not, he doesn't do this, he doesn't do that, he's he's to this, he's to that, he's he's always on the umpires, go and do something else. And I always remember saying to my mum, I promise you, there will come a time where we can put two fingers off for all them people.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Andy is one of Great Britain's most successful and recognizable wheelchair tennis players. Competing in the quad division, he's reached world number one, he's won multiple Grand Slam titles across singles and doubles, and represented Great Britain at multiple Paralympic Games. He's been a central figure in the growth and visibility of wheelchair tennis, helping elevate the sport on the global stage. Andy's career has been defined by resilience, adaptability, and competitive fire. The Quad Division brings unique physical and tactical demands, and Andy has built his success on intelligence, precision, and relentless belief. He has experienced the pressure of Grand Slam finals, the intensity of Paralympic competition, and the responsibility that comes with being a role model within disability sport. But as always, on Beyond Tennis, this is not just about the trophies. In the first part of the conversation, we're going to dive deep into Andy's tennis journey from discovering the sport to becoming world number one and competing at the very highest level. In the second part, we will explore what matters to Andy beyond tennis. For him, that includes his love of dogs and his lifelong passion for West Ham Football Club. Two things that bring balance, identity, and perspective away from elite competition. Andy, thanks for coming on Beyond Tennis. Looking forward to it. Yeah, thanks for having me, mate. Looking forward to that. Absolute pleasure. I've known you for years. Um have you done many podcasts before? Done a fair few.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Um, hoping this one's gonna open up some avenues that I haven't spoken about before.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

I've seen you doing a bit a lot of media recently as well. I saw you doing a bit of BBC during Australian Open Commentary. How'd you find that?

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Yeah, obviously getting a bit older and looking at what I want to potentially try and do when I move on to the next stage of my life. How old are you now? 35 now. 35. There's no spring chicken, mate. No, so 36 this year. So yeah, just trying to dive into something new and I've really enjoyed working with the BBC and getting involved in that.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Yeah, good. So beyond tennis, what we do is we we'll spend the first part of the interview going through your career, fine-tooth comb, looking for looking at how you started and where you are now, and then we'll go beyond tennis, what your interests are off court, which I will reveal after the tennis part. Okay, so starting off, when did you start? When did you get a tennis racket in your hand? How did that happen?

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Uh so when I was younger, loved boxing, loved watching the boxing, used to watch from my old man, different sports like that. Um, loved football, obviously. Um, but then when you get to an age where you sort of are able to understand and realise you're not gonna be running around in midfield for West Ham and you're not gonna be getting into a boxing ring when you've got cerebral palsy. Yeah, I needed to find something that was gonna feed that competitiveness and uh tried loads of sports, tried water sports. What other sports did you try before tennis? Tried water sports, wheelchair basketball, played a fair bit of wheelchair basketball, yeah, and then stumbled across tennis. What age? Uh would have been about 10. 10. Okay. So 10 years old, stumbled across wheelchair tennis. Yeah. Um, and that was kind of the closest thing to boxing for me in terms of one-on-one combat, you against the person at the other end, um, basketball, obviously a team.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

How quickly did you take to tennis?

SPEAKER_02 3:41

Yeah, I mean, especially going to the LTA beginner camp that I went to, yeah, they had tennis wheelchairs, which are completely different to your normal wheelchair that is.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

So is it different to the basketball wheelchair?

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Yeah, yeah. And it was basically like going from being in a Ford Fiesta to getting into a Ferrari. Oh, really? Yeah, that's the like that's how I'd say it was like. So as soon as I did that, like age 10. 10, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Fell in love with it, and uh yeah. And and what what did it what did your so you introduced it at 10, what did your training look like? How how often were you playing at the age of 10?

SPEAKER_02 4:15

Yeah, so two or three times a week, like in and around school. Uh met my first coach, Strill Wilkinson. Yeah. Um worked with him, was playing on park courts a lot of the time outdoors in the rain. And it must be quite difficult to move the the the wheelchair around. Yeah, so but what I did learn was like if you want to make it, this is what you're gonna have to, yeah, this is what you're gonna have to do. So started started small and then lots of fundraisers from family and friends, like we did dog shows, horse shows to raise money for the for the wheelchairs because they're not cheap, they're they're like top of the range equipment.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Um, and yeah, just kind of so again we're kind of we're gonna try and go through chronologically your your tennis journey. You said you started at 10, you're playing two or three times a week. When did that start increasing and it becoming a bit more of a serious thing?

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Yeah, I mean, when I realised like a bit more information that Wilcher Tennis was just starting to break into the Grand Slams at that time. Yeah. So I think Giant Mystery, who was the old British number one, yes, remember the name? We had just played Wimbledon. So I'd seen that and sort of seen, and I think my parents had seen that look, there was a door for this to be pretty serious. What sort of age are you now? Are you kind of probably 12-13? Yeah. And sort of starting to probably see that there might be a door for this to be a job, yeah, in some sort of way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Um, have you started competing then at 1213?

SPEAKER_02 5:36

Yeah, so playing junior events, yeah. Um, but then from that point forward, really trying to travel to more tournaments. My dad's an ambulance driver, and he used to drive me up and down the country in his ambulance. No way to all the different tournaments. That must be funny. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And just from there we travelled up and down the country, went around, played. So this is kind of primarily in the UK. Yeah, in the UK, and then from there you get obviously talent spotted by the guys. So you're starting to win events, then yeah, and you get talent spotted, and then you're playing juniors for GB. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Uh what age were you when you started playing for G Big 14, 15, 14? I was young, man.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Yeah, so I was young, went into it, and then that's when you start to meet some people that have really been inf influential in my career, some of the older players, people people like Kevin Simpson, yeah, and people like that who Peter Norfolk was Peter Norfolk, who was my doubles partner, my first partner. I mean, he he he was a big, big name in wheelchair test. Yeah, and honestly, he won gold medals and stuff, and he was someone that I ended up. But once you meet those guys, yeah, then that's kind of the point where you're like, okay, I can do this for a job, I can do this for a living.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

So the few of the people I've spoken to already, it's been quite interesting, like going through their teenage years when they were exposed to elite either coaches or other players. What what sort of age were you when you started interacting with like with Peter and Mystery?

SPEAKER_02 6:57

Yeah, probably 14, yeah 14 years old.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Um which is quite fortunate to be like 14 to be kind of in that circle.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Yeah, but you know me, like cloud, brash, jump especially back then, jumped straight in and was just asking loads of questions. Yeah. Um and so you you you you're schooling as well? Yeah, in school.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Well, trying to be in school. So so like your training now is you you're you're doing what? What's your typical week looking like as a 15, 16-year-old lap for?

SPEAKER_02 7:26

I mean, at times doing 7am session and then going to school, which was brutal. Yeah, where you're doing this? So that was at the NTC and then going to school afterwards, and then training at the NTC after school. So you're training how many hours on court? Probably three hours a day. So you're doing three hours a day at 15, 16. When I could, yeah. Um, but then at that point, score would kind of I had decided in my mind I was gonna make it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

So anything like Okay, so what what made you think now? What you must be having good results in winning the UK event. Yeah, you're doing well in the UK.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

National champion, um, I'd started traveling around. Junior champion. Yeah, yeah. Started travelling around and playing, and then obviously got classified into the quad division, yeah, which is for athletes with upper limb impairments as well as lower limb division.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

I was going to ask them what's the difference between the quad division.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Yeah, so you've got your men's open and women's open, which is where you'll see your Gordon Reeds, who's just got a lower limb impairment, lower limb impairment, and then for me, because I've got impairments in my upper limbs as well, there's a classification for athletes with both. Okay, and that's so that was kind of the big turning point for me because that was at probably about 16. Yeah. And then that was when I got classified into there, and I was all of a sudden playing against people who had the same physical abilities as me. Yeah, within six months I turned professional, left school at 16. And I was on the tour.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

So when when when did you start playing internationally?

SPEAKER_02 8:48

At the end of being 15, and then when I turned 16, that yeah, and that was when the the relationship with Peter Norfolk really started to he's a bit older, isn't he? Yeah, and he but he saw me coming in and probably thought I've got a doubles partner here for the Paralympics. Yeah, so I had to learn very quickly because I was all of a sudden I'm I've left home, I'm travelling around the world, I'm playing against the best players in the world, and I'm just a kid that has no idea really at that point. So when was your first grand slam? Men's yeah, first grand slam, probably 2008, I'm gonna say you would have been how old? Uh I would have been 18. So I I remember the moment actually, I was actually at West Ham versus Birmingham City, yeah, League Cup century. Probably lost in my West Ham normally lose. We ended up losing when I was in Australia, but I got a phone call during the game, so you can imagine it's raucous. Yeah, yeah. And I got a phone call, you need to go home, you've got a wild card for the Aussie Open. Wow, because did you expect there was that kind of Well no, because the person that was getting the wild card had got injured in training or whatever that day, yeah, and this was on the Wednesday I'm gonna say the Wednesday night, I would have been at Upton Park and the Aussie Open started on the Monday. Well, so in January, deep into January. So I'm I'm 17, 18, and all of a sudden I've got a book of flight to Australia. Never been to Australia in my life. And the LTA are helping with it, yeah. The LTA helping, and then fly out to the Aussie Open. One of our best mates, Oliver Richardson. Yeah. He uh asked his mum and dad if he could borrow some money, and he jumped on the plane with me because obviously at the time it was such short notice, it was like, Who am I gonna go with? Didn't have a coach then to take you over, Hulk. No, so we so we just flew over on a whim, um, and me and Pete ended up winning the doubles, which was Okay, so I knew that you were you you won the Aussie open in your first appearance there. Yeah, when me and Well, I'm very lucky that Pete was the he was the world number. He was a big deal, I remember, yeah. He was he was winning pretty much everything, he was the Alcaraz of the time, yeah. Um and he taught me an awful lot and was someone that like for me going into Grand Slams, it was just lucky for me that I'm playing with the best player in the world, yeah, and I could sort of be myself, and he would sort of he shaped my early career massively.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Kind of helped you through, yeah, yeah. Well what was it like then, kind of move going straight into a Grand Slam environment where you've got I'd imagine Federa and Djokovic and people walking around at that time, were they? What was that mean? Yeah, it was Federa, Djokovic, Nadal, Andy.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Um how did you find that? What was I think back then I'm so young and so brash that it was all like I'm gonna turn up here and smash everyone, and this is nothing to me, and whatever. You know, like what you are when you're that age, like you have you literally have no idea. No idea, and no fear, yeah, no fear, yeah, but like just I felt like this is what I've been, this is where I want to be, this is what I'm like when I'm seeing Federer and I'm seeing Rafa in the locker rooms, and I'm in the same locker room, that kind of told me like when I get home, I'm gonna put the world.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

Yeah, this is it, this is it, this is what I want to do. So you come back to the UK, you got a Grand Slam title. You said just there that that gave you a bit of impetus to then start really kind of putting the work in.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

Yeah, and I came home as the world number one in doubles, the youngest ever world number one. So it was all kind of youngest ever world number one in doubles, yeah, yeah, in in our categories. So like it all happened so fast, and you don't really you don't really take it in. Yeah, and it's almost because I was lucky enough to be playing with Pete, yeah, it was all happening so easy, yeah, that I kind of took a lot of it for granted. I was going out a lot, I was enjoying the I was enjoying life, yeah, um, but not doing a lot of the stuff that I should have been doing at times because I just thought, well so it's a real kind of explosion onto the world scene.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

What are you thinking long term? Is this now this is my career? And are you thinking this is gonna be lasting as long as it has done?

SPEAKER_02 12:49

Or yeah, at that point I'm sort of massively under Pete Norfolk's wing. Yeah, I'm sort of his little is he towards the end of his career though? Yeah, he's he's so he retired in London 2012, so we're in sort of 2008 and 2009, yeah. But I'm sort of going everywhere of him, and we're dominating the double C and we're beating a team that had dominated everywhere, which I know Pete enjoyed because he he'd been losing to them for years. Yeah, but I was kind of I was never it was sort of one of those situations where I was so under his wing learning from him, but I never kind of believed I was gonna beat him or I was there for singles at that point. I would get to semis, sometimes would get to the final and play him, yeah, but would never I would never in my mind think, right, well now I need to try and beat this guy. It was always, well, that's Pete. Yeah. Like Pete's my man, and yeah, I'm here to help him win the doubles, and we were so successful in doubles that it was just so enjoyable. I was like, this is mental. I'm playing with a guy that I've watched growing up, and we we went on a tour, and then I'd say probably a year before London's and now we're talking 2010-11. You start growing up a bit, yeah. You start thinking, right, how'd I beat this guy? Yeah. Rather than thinking.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

And have you I'm gonna ask you, when was your first singles, not Grand Slam, but when was your first ITF title singles? I couldn't couldn't remember where it would have been at might have been in Nottingham.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

Okay, so so the lot of the early success you're having are in the doubles court with Pete. The singles would have been some probably Nottingham Indoors, one of the big ones there where Pete didn't play. Yeah, and then I've managed to win the title, and then I would have been going alongside playing the doubles with Pete. There would have been some European events that I was going off to on my own, like smaller ones, so like a like a challenger type thing. Yeah. To learn my trade in singles and was doing really well there. So what did you what were you getting your ranking up to Wilderman five, six in the world? Five six in the world on the singles, and then number one in the world in doubles. Yeah. Um, and then the big jump was when started to compete with these guys in singles, yeah. And then that's when you start to learn actually you're on your own in this tennis world, and yeah, once you start challenging the big boys, they don't want to be your friend anymore. They don't want to be your best mate anymore. And yeah, I think Pete could kind of feel the change in terms of even in the training sessions where it was like, Okay, this kid's coming. Yeah, and like my mindset then went to like I've got to try and take this guy's head off.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Yeah, that was my Well I remember seeing you. I'm gonna go back probably around about the Olympics time, actually. Might have been like 10 or 11. And I remember just thinking you're an absolute fighter, like a dog on the court, you were chasing balls like the raffler. I was gonna keep it thinking you're just absolute competitive spirit.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

Yeah, and that comes from the background. I come from a working class background, I'm not your usual tennis background, yeah. Um, so I built a lot of what I do around where I come from and the and the way I grew up. Yeah, I I didn't know any different, and obviously being a big boxing fan, being a big football fan, yeah. Like all I saw and I knew was that was the way sport was played. Yeah, and at times at times it got me into trouble in the tennis world because it wasn't it wasn't a done thing in tennis to be screaming and shouting. Were you in people's faces at that time? Yeah, in people's faces. Oh, I'd love to have seen that. Yeah, in people's faces, and then like one of my big heroes was John McEnroe, yeah, because he was someone like you. Yeah, he was someone that obviously was playing way before I was born and stuff, but when I got into tennis, people used to say this guy in the wheelchair, he's like John McEnroe. Yeah. So then I started thinking, well, who's this John McEnroe? Yeah. This would have been when I was like 13, 14, yeah, looked into who he was, found out who he was, and was like, Yeah, this is what you love, this is what but that's how I was because I'd I'd only ever watched football where the players are screaming at the ref.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

So like if I thought the ball was in.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

I think that's why I fell in love with watching you play, actually, because I I'm a big football fan as well, so I'd I kind of saw that pure passion and it would get me in trouble at times because I would literally would be so young and not understand that if I thought the ball was in, I'd scream at the umpire because I'd saw Paolo Di Cano.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Yeah, if he thought the decision was wrong, he'd be like, he'd let him know you're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then so you're screaming at umpires and stuff on the room. Yeah, so I and then I quickly found out that one, it's gonna cost you a lot of money, yeah, because you're gonna get fined. Yeah, and two, you're gonna get a reputation, yeah, which is what I did get. I mean, I think in one of the newspapers around London was called the bad, the new bad boy of British tennis, which that was yeah, which my mum really didn't like, obviously, because I was only young and stuff, and yeah, but yeah, and we're we're leading up here actually, like in terms of your career, and again looking at the UK in 2012 was huge, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:45

That London Olympics and Paralympics was massive, massive. What was it like being a Londoner and competing there? Was it Wimbledon?

SPEAKER_02 17:55

No, no, it wasn't where you played at Eater Manor, so we played right across the road from the London Stadium. Okay, so okay, so what was that for you like being a Londoner? I mean, part of me now wishes it could have been in 2016, right? When I'd grown up a bit. So how old are you in 2020? Could have been 21 at the time. So 21 going into the Paralympics. So I wish I'd have had a few more years and a few and a bit more experience to understand what I was going into. Right. To take it all in. Okay. Rather than thinking about just winning. Right. So you went in there thinking I just gotta win, I've got to win, I wanna win. You've got to win, and we're like, where's the next one? Where's the next one? And obviously, we'd been in a place where in Paralympic sport, disability sport, people didn't come and watch. Right. So all of a sudden, London there was a Channel 4 documentary on me and Pete before the Paralympics, the week before, and there's me F and Blind, and there's me losing the plot, and it went you, it you never effing blind, yeah. And it and it and it went viral, yeah, and all of a sudden there's 10,000 people watching Mile and Pete's matches. Okay, so what's going through your mind here then? Again, I wish the older me wishes I knew how to take it all in and appreciate the fact that this is never gonna happen again, you're never gonna play at home paralympics ever again. Yeah, yeah. Whereas my focus was purely on we need to win a gold medal. Yeah, we've been smashing everyone.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Look, that's not different. They they they they I that's I I I regularly speak to people that didn't appreciate the moment that they were in a lot of the time until you look back.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

But amazing still to be like the semi-final serving to get to the Paralympic final, and I remember I can remember even now, all these years later, bouncing the ball and feeling everyone looking at me and thinking this is gonna be unbelievable if we win this point, yeah. And I hit an ace down the T and the crowd were it was one of them things where it's for a for a kid with a disability to be told the things that I was told when I was younger to be in the spot where I ended up in. Yeah. It was almost like an F you to everyone that told me that I wouldn't be able to do it, yeah. But also a moment that was like, this is mental because this is almost like the first step to breaking that glass ceiling for disability sport where we're gonna be in a position after this where people are gonna want to come and watch disability sport. Like we were I was in the village hearing David Weir go round that track, 80,000 people, yeah, absolutely crazy. And then so we got to the Paralympic final and I remember coming through to go to the arena and stuff, and people were queuing outside the door, and that was the moment that kind of big change. Yeah, it was a change. That was me suddenly realizing okay, like you've probably not prepared the way you should have for this. Yeah, because I was out every weekend, yeah, I was chasing gals, I was with my mates, drinking, yeah, just living it up because not living the professional life. No, I was oh I was training and stuff, and I was still wanting to win, but I was still being the Jack the lad and being uh being a normal bloke that like you'd always missed yeah, everyone I was just a normal guy, but then all of a sudden I was in a situation where it was like this is big, yeah. But people actually care, yeah, yeah. So this is getting recognized, yeah. Getting rid like we went into Westfields one of the days and it was chaos, yeah, because of the documentary and stuff, and because I couldn't move. Like people we tried to go to Nando's and we couldn't get there. Um, so like for someone, yeah. Because for a disability athlete, yeah, like that was a lot to take in, and that's why I say I wish it would have been four years later, yeah, because I would have been able to deal with it. And then obviously we play the final and we get this close, and it was Pete's last ever match, and I think it got to him a little bit, yeah, and I was too young to be able to kind of catch. Carry him through that. To get used over the line. And it was it still lives with me to this day because we're never going to get that opportunity again to win that gold medal.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

I want to I want to just skip back a little bit. You mentioned it there, because I always think of you as just a tennis player playing at the Grand Slam. Talk to me a bit about the difficulties of being in a wheelchair and and your entrance point to tennis. What what challenges did you have growing up before you actually took the tennis?

SPEAKER_02 22:28

I mean, I'm very lucky. Like I've still got the same mates that I had from when I was a baby basically. And I was very lucky that because I had those mates and I've they were the biggest kids in the school, the hardest kids in the school. Yeah. I didn't get much grief. But I know a lot of kids with disabilities weren't that lucky. Yeah. And I know it can be absolutely ruthless. And it was back then. Like people would say stuff to me. I was just lucky enough that I had mates that would go and sort them out.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

And it wouldn't happen again. And you're quite a confident guy. But yeah. But then behind all that, you're also growing up and you're like I said, you're realising like one minute I'm dreaming of playing in midfield for West Ham or going and putting some boxing gloves on or doing whatever. Yeah. And all of a sudden you realise I'm not I'm different. Yeah. I'm different. And that's takes some time to to take in because you're I'm from such a normal background where like my mates have never treated me any different. Like if I if we're rinsing each other and I say something to them, they'll say something about my disability. Yeah. And sometimes people look and go, Oh yeah, if you're not if you're not in the group, it's like it's always been that way because they've never wanted me to feel any different. Yeah. And if I'm going at you, it's fair game.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

Which has always been great for me, and it's been it's been something that's allowed me to live with confidence and allowed me to live normally. Yeah. But there are moments where you think, oh mate, this is hard. Well, why did this have have to happen to me and stuff like that?

SPEAKER_01 24:01

But then a lot of people you're obviously born with cerebral palsy.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

Yeah, born with cerebral palsy. But then also, like, sometimes those days happen, and then you realise you meet someone or you meet a kid along the way, and you think, Bloody hell, I'm actually quite lucky. Like, yeah. And I'm very lucky to have the family that I've had that never made me feel any different. I was never molycoddled. I was never I was always pushed to like go and do normal stuff.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

And and is that again, not knowing much about the that world, is that there's a lot of people with cerebral palsy that maybe don't get into sport.

SPEAKER_02 24:35

Yeah, and that's not the norm. I'm not the norm. Yeah. Like a lot of parents, and this is a big thing I always say to parents with kids with disabilities, is you've got to push them to go and try and live a normal life, let them go and do stuff, let them make mistakes. But you were trying basketball, you were trying to get it. Yeah, and then I also like I was going out on a Friday night with my mates, drinking and going around the streets and falling over the same as everyone else, and but learning about life. Yeah. Like I wasn't kept indoors, and my mum wasn't sort of saying she didn't know a lot of the time of what we were doing. You know what, you know, yeah. Yeah, she didn't know a lot of the time what we were doing, but I ended up just being a normal kid. Yeah. And that helped me survive my disability because I didn't feel any different until certain points where sometimes you're like, bloody hell, this is hard work. But also my mates never let me get that down. Yeah. Because my mates would always give me a kick up the back. It's good to have those mates around, yeah. And like, like I say, I've got we went out for a meal last week to celebrate some of the stuff that I've done recently, and there's there's 12 guys there that have been there since day dot. That's great. So that's and there's not many people around that can that can say that, and that's that's one of the big things what's helped me. But I do realise that like I'd say the vast majority of kids with disabilities, school's probably horrendous, really, and I can see how that would happen. Um, so it's just one of those things like when I the biggest thing when I speak to parents is try and let your kids live a normal life, but also the biggest thing now is like all my heroes growing up were able-bodied because we didn't have disability sport on TV.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Well, whenever I've uh I've spoken to I've known you what 10-15 years, we always just talk about tennis normally, right?

SPEAKER_02 26:20

So, but now these kids are when they turn on Wimbledon, they're seeing Andy Laphorn, they're seeing Gordon Reed, they're seeing kids.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Like you just said obviously 2012 was a massive, massive moment for your own career. How did the sport change, do you think, after two 2012 London?

SPEAKER_02 26:38

All of a sudden, the coverage of the Grand Slams. Yeah. Like the journalists were interested when you're playing. Getting on TV more on TV, sponsors, yeah. All of a sudden a bit of.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

So you know you noticed a bit more of a bit of money coming in from the sponsors. And did the because you obviously play it's not just the four Grand Slams, was the calendar always pretty full?

SPEAKER_02 26:59

Yeah, like it's changed a lot over the years. Yeah, and we're trying now to integrate into ATP and WTA events, that's the next step. Did I see them in Rotterdam? Was it Rotterdam? Yeah, so they were in Rotterdam. Yeah. We need to get the quads in there. Okay, so quads is not in Rotterdam there. Richard Krychek, are you watching? Let's get the quads in. So we need to get the quads in there, but trying to take that next step. But even back then, the ITF Wheelchair Tennis Tour, which is 50 years this year, yeah, there were tournaments all around the world. So I was travelling 50 tournaments a year. No, no, it's been 50 years of 50 years, sorry. 50 years of wheelchair tennis. Yeah. Um, and yeah, travelling full world tour.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Um, yeah, and yeah, just so to 2012, then we've kind of fast forward your first singles grand slam win 2014.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

US Open.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Talk me through that. I mean, that's huge. Again, like US Open singles champion.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

Again, New York, somewhere that I've always loved. I'm a big New York Knicks fan.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

I think I think it suits you, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 27:59

The atmosphere there and like the and that's why I'm a Knicks fan. I'm a Knicks basketball fan. Like always when I was a kid, those were the teams that I followed. And then the first time I went to New York, I was like, this is my type of place. This is When was your first boot? I think I was there. The first time would have been 2012. Okay. Yeah. Because it was small draw sizes back then. Yeah. So you you had to get a wild card a lot of the time to get in. So then when I finally got in and went there, I was like, this is my type of tennis. Yeah, the people shouting during the point. Burgers on the side of the court, music, like all of a sudden it was like, Yeah, that's you, mate. Okay, yeah, I'm at home here. Like a lot of the players are absolutely snapping because there's chaos going on. Who was in the final? So I played David Wagner, who is one of my greatest doubles partners, yeah, and my biggest rival of all time. Probably the greatest. But we're gonna come on to him later. Yeah. So played him in the final. Um, and again, be being completely open and honest that week, spending pretty much every night in the nightclub. No way, yeah. So spending every night in the nightclubs and winning the singles, yeah. But it was one of them where it was like Lappers. I I'd win a match, and I'd think to myself, Well, that's about let's go out and celebrate. And then the next day I'd turn up, and when you're young, you can recover, and all of a sudden, before you night, I'm so relaxed. So 2014, how old are you? So I'm 23 at this point. Okay, so 23 being a Grand Slam single. 23, and then get to the final, and I've I've been out every night and I'm rolling into the final thinking, well, I've got nothing to lose here, and I'm playing great. And uh playing David, who was someone who at the time had a great record over me. Oh, before that, he had a better record over me. And then what they actually did was they timed it really well was in between the day session and the night session in New York, if they get it right and the day session's not a long match, they have a gap of about an hour and a half, two hours. Yeah, they put us in that slot and it was full. And it was like for me, he was the home player, yeah, but I was the West Ham lad that everyone cheering against me. Yeah, this is a perfect situation. All of a sudden I'm like, Well, I've just come out of the nightclub, yeah, and I'm coming in. New York City. Yeah, I'm coming here to take you out, and actually, what happened by the end of the match was all these New Yorkers was like, actually, this kid is like us. Yeah. And I had the crowd go in for me, yeah, which he didn't enjoy very much, and managed to, I think it was I can't remember the score, but it was very close, two sets. Yeah. Um a US Open time. Yeah. And a big motivation for me, I'm gonna be open and honest, otherwise I wouldn't have come on here. Yeah, was there was a lot of the time back then at the LTA. I wouldn't say it is now, but back then, this kid doesn't fit in. Right. This kid's different. Yeah, he's different. He doesn't come from a lot of money. Yeah, he's turning up in a clapped-up wheelchair when he started, he's got a second-hand racket, he's beating these kids that have got the. So, did you feel like an outsider coming through? A lot of the time. Yeah, until I met Kevin Simpson, Scottish guy, yeah, uh, who ended up coaching me for a while, yeah, he helped me a lot. He was someone that he was playing on the men's side, and he was one of the only people that I never felt like he judged me. Right. I felt like he always could see he could see beyond the the the brashness and that he could see more, yeah, and he always supported me. And but I did always feel like I was up against it. I always felt like if I didn't get the results, if I didn't perform, then your face didn't come. I'd be the first one out the door. Right. So that was a big motivator to sort of go, all them people that told because I know the people that told my mum, he'll never make it. Really, he'll never make it. We're not gonna name names, but no, but people said to my mum, we would be at tournaments in the UK and the national coaches at the time, luckily they're not about anymore. Yeah, but they would sort of say, No, he's not, he's not got enough about him, he's not, he doesn't do this, he doesn't do that, he's he's too this, he's too that, he's he's always on the umpires, go and do something else. And I always remember saying to my mum, I promise you there will come a time where we can put two fingers up at all them people, and that was to 2014 you've won the US Open Teddy. That's gonna go through your mind. Well the main thing there was that, um, and then just the people that you've lost, like lost a fair few people in our family, yeah, and you just at those that they'd seen it, yeah. And then at those moments, you're just thinking, I've made some people prouder, yeah, and that's where when you come from where I come from, you don't tend to win the US Open. So it was yeah, a massive moment in my life.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

And I'm gonna say another massive achievement that you've had, you were mentioned in the uh King's Honours list, MBE for services to tennis. What you've just discussed with us for the last how long, coming from a working class background, how big was that?

SPEAKER_02 33:07

Getting an MBE at the palace. Again, again, for the family, for the people that are not here anymore, the people that fundraised for the wheelchairs, the people that backed me when other people didn't were saying don't back this kid, this kid's bad news. That's all going forward. That was for those guys. Yeah, uh, for me, obviously amazing. Amazing date. Um who who who who was it? It was the king. It was the king himself. So, yeah, to go there with my brother and my mum, my dad, to receive that for services to British tennis, a small nod after having so many times back in the day where I didn't feel like I was wanted or appreciated and stuff like that. It was just nice to to get that and just yeah, again, like like what we've spoken about, to show kids, wheelchair or able-bodied, yeah, that if you come from my background, yeah, you can come in this sport. And you put down all your emails now. Yeah. Yeah, you text me earlier on and you put MBE on it. I don't think that was necessary. I definitely didn't, but yeah, definitely one of those things that's you don't expect it, you don't ask for it, but to be to be given it, especially for my mum and dad who put in so much hard work and who have seen like the ups and downs, they've been there when I've lost Grand Slam finals and I've been down as low as you can be, and I've lost Paralympic finals for them to be here still to see that is was was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

What would you say to kids 11, 12, 13 that want to get in that have terrible palsy that want to get into tennis? How would you suggest best?

SPEAKER_02 34:43

I would say definitely now contacting the LTA.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

You've got a great I I'd imagine there's a lot more opportunities going with a great team there.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

Eric does a great job who runs the who runs the wheelchair program, Eric Kors. Okay runs the wheelchair program. You've got some great coaches there now. Um it's integrated. Um, and I mean obviously you've had all the players over the years, they know they have a complete pathway now, the same as the able-bodied game. Um so the the entrance point is Oh, it's so much easier. Like they have chairs, yeah. So if you wanted to jump in a chair, you're not in a situation where you're gonna be like, Well, I remember playing with you in a chair once, and I literally couldn't move two yards. Yeah, couldn't move two yards, yeah. So we've come a long way in terms of like when I first started, yeah. I was needing to fundraise for a chair. They have chairs there now, yeah. They have numerous coaches that know what they're doing. Yeah, when coaches are doing their coaching badges now, they're trained in disability sport, not just wheelchair tennis, but blind tennis, deaf tennis, all that stuff. So it's way easier now for a kid or a parent to take their child to a local club and them to not freak out and them to understand because you you were doing it in the parks at the beginning, isn't it? Yeah, I mean we played, we played, I played for the local club, yeah, and I turned up to a match and the guys refused to play. They weren't playing against us because they said we can't of course this guy in a wheelchair can't play against us. Yeah and he can't play with two bounces, this is a joke, and they refused to play. So we went through a whole process. Yeah, we went through a whole process when I was in my teens. Me and my brother were turning up to club matches, and people either didn't want to play, or when they did play and they got beat by us, all of a sudden it was complaints going into different organisations saying, Oh, this guy's getting two bounces is a joke. But it was like, you're not losing because we're getting two bounces.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

I mean, I'm I remember you being at my academy training with all the able-bodied juniors. Yeah, good hit.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

I mean, the people could and that's where now if a child wanted to get into it and a parent wanted to, it's so much easier. And like the that's the one thing I'm very proud of is like hopefully parents and children would never have to go through that again. Yeah. Those doors being closed, those even down to little things like all clubs now are pretty much accessible. Yeah. Uh back in the day they weren't. Yes. Um, and like I say, way more people have seen wheelchair tennis, they understand wheelchair tennis, yeah, and you'll be you'll be welcomed in it.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

What would you how would you change the wheelchair tennis world? I'm talking about professionally here.

SPEAKER_02 37:17

Yeah, I mean the quad division, definitely to to get more respect, yeah, to be invited to more of these events. Yeah. Um, we're still not an equal draw size at two of the slams with the other two. Right. Um, so that needs to change, especially at Wimbledon. Yeah. We need to have the same as the men and the women. Yeah. Um, and then I think just keep growing, keep trying to be integrated into as many of these events as possible. Yeah. Um, whilst looking after the lower tiers to make sure that we don't leave them behind and they have somewhere to play and compete and to to come up to where to where we're going and just keep keep building, keep building the prize money so that more players can be it's good now.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

I mean, it's yeah, can you the the difference in your prize money from 2009 to now is Yeah, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 38:06

Yeah, but what we need to do is try and find sponsors for the regular tour, yeah, bigger sponsors for Uniclub sponsoring it for. Yeah, yeah. But we need more investment so that more players can be professional. Yeah. The players at the Grand Slams are able to be professional because of the prize money they're getting from the Grand Slams. Yeah. The players that are not playing the slams, it's tough. Yeah. So for you to be professional and not to have to have a job, it's pretty much impossible. So that's the next step is if we can get professionalize the lower levels to be professional within the next sort of by 2030. I think that's a realistic goal. And then and then you'll just grow.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

What do you want to do after you're playing? Obviously, you're gonna play as long as you possibly can. I mean compete Grand Slams, but what what what have you got?

SPEAKER_02 38:58

I love the commentary, yeah. I love being around it, like able-bodied tennis. Like, like I said, I live through the top four. I absolutely loved watching Andy. I'm not just saying it because he's someone I know and he's my mate. Like, yeah, it was a privilege to to watch those guys play and compete. So for me to be in the commentary box, it doesn't feel like a job. That's what I always did. I'll if I wasn't commentating on it, I'd be watching it on the TV. Yeah, we'll have to get you back on the channel then a few times over Wimbledon. So, yeah, if I can if I can head in that direction, that's the main goal. And then look, who knows? Like, done some helped Billy Harris out with Jack Carpenter over Wimbledon, gave him some advice every now and then. He was asking me stuff. Something a secret little goal that I've never really said before is to maybe try and be the first wheelchair player to coach an ATP or WTA player, yeah. Whether that be lead coach or just being involved, like yeah, obviously, my coach now, Jack Carpenter, has worked with some top players, so I'm in and around it, and like having seen what Billy does and different things like that, it's been it's been you've been around the ground slams enough, yeah. And I think just to break that glass ceiling, again, like similar conversations of when it was like when Andy worked with Muresmo. Yes, yeah. It was like, oh my god, this guy's got a female coach.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

Yeah, great. Well, we're looking out for that one. Um, so that kind of covers your tennis career here at Beyond Tennis. We talk about what your interests are off the court. You've given me a couple that we're gonna chat about. First of all, first and foremost is your love of dogs, and that you you're you've got one of your sponsors is a dog company.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

Talk to us about that. Yeah, so they're a dog in daycare company, um, and they look after Bernie when I'm away a lot of the time. Yeah, um, and then my love of dogs come from we've always had dogs in our family house. My mum's got four dogs, yeah, my dad's got a dog now. Um, and I've always just So you've always had dogs. I've always loved animals. Anything to do with animals, like I love looking after animals and stuff like that. So I went and did a a day with Battersey. Okay, yeah. Dogs home, and it changed my life. Yeah. I met Bernie, who is now my dog, obviously. Yeah, and it was a life changer. It was one of them where again, when my You mentioned to me the other day sort of how he helps with your mental health as well. Yeah, again, like when my relationship broke down that I was in at the time, yeah, like he saved my life. Yeah, uh, I was in a bad place mental health wise, wasn't and I think it's easy at times when when you are the Jack the lad and the loudest in the room and you're the one that makes everyone laugh, yeah. It's easy for people to miss the fact that actually when you're going home by yourself, you're the guy that's really struggling. Yeah, and that's what was happening to me is like I was winning Grand Slams and like getting back in the doing stuff. Like I said, I won Roland Garros, but my relationship had ended, and I came home and threw the trophy across the front room and was like, what good's that to me?

SPEAKER_01 42:02

Because my life's a mess. Something I heard you say actually on your commentary on BBC was that thought process when you reach number one. Was it when you reach number one? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:17

The biggest goal of my life, like what we've spoken about with tennis. Um the biggest goal was after everything was what can I do to top it all off and really prove everything wrong? And that was to be the best player in the world in singles. Yeah. Um then you got there. And I knew that it was gonna be a tough mountain to climb. Yeah. And I got there in Australia, and the Australian Open was the week after. Yeah. And I remember waking up looking on my phone, seeing the ranking, just bursting to tears, but it wasn't the happy tears, it was tears of what do I do now? Really? I've just spent my whole life and dedicated my whole life to getting away from being in the nightclubs, getting away from drinking, getting away from doing all that madness, dedicating myself to kind of a sadness. Yeah, I'm gonna get to world number one and I'm gonna be the best in the world, so that when I stop, and then when I got there, it was like shit, what do I do now? Like what I've done it, yeah, now what's next? Yeah, and it was like there was I had so many messages saying this is unbelievable something. I remember feeling so empty. Yeah, and that's where that's not uncommon though, I've heard that before. Yeah, and that's where with dogs, yeah, a dog can really help because I've had it when I've lost in Grand Slam finals and stuff. When you go home, Bernie's there, the dog don't care whether you've won or lost. Yeah, you've got to get up in the morning, you've got to go and walk your dog, you've got to feed your dog, you've got to then walk your dog in the afternoon from a mental health standpoint, it's an amazing thing. They don't they're so loyal, yeah, and he's really helped me to to have that time sometimes when you are feeling Down the dog walk sometimes can clear your mind, and you can almost come back in and go, actually, I'm alright now. Yeah, I'm alright now. Yeah, and they're an amazing, they're an amazing thing for that. And rescuing a dog was very rewarding.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

Well, I've not been looking forward to this next section. Um yeah, if I I'm a big Millwall fan, so all my Millwall mates will be absolutely devastated to hear that I'm sitting opposite a West Ham fan. West Ham fan.

SPEAKER_02 44:30

I don't even know if you could call it a fan, a West Ham lunatic.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

A West Ham lunatic, yeah. I mean, Millwall will always have no problem beating West Ham. But what got you into West Ham? When did you start? Well, my dad's a West Ham fan. Dad's West Ham.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

That whole side of that family. Yeah. Um when did you start going to games? That would have been when I was really young. Yeah. Um, and then also when Brentford weren't what Brentford are now. Yeah. Used to go to Brentford before. Oh, did you I didn't know that? I was at the NTC. Right, yeah. Griffin Park was around the corner. So I used to go there. When they were in like League One and Championship. Yeah, League One, League Two, even League Two. League Two, yeah. Um, so yeah, football's always been a massive part of my life, and like a big thing for me is spending that time with my dad, my brother, and then my mates. Yeah. Um, and like something I'm so shame you couldn't pick a proper club, really, but so something that I'm so passionate about. Um and the club have been great to me, they support me. Yeah, you've got you've got to know the club quite well, haven't you? And I know some of the players like Suchek come to Wimbledon. And you don't like Jared Bowen. Yeah, yeah. And then we got I've got the piece in the programme which I do which I really enjoy. I didn't know that. Yeah, so I do that on a weekly basis. It's called Making a Racket. Okay, and what what do you write? So I just write what's going on in my life and then a review of it. So we're updating on the tennis results. And a review of what's going on the week before and what's going on the week after. Um, and then also a big thing for me was when we got into Europe, was showing that a guy in a wheelchair can can plod his way around Europe with the. I mean, you were travelling every day, weren't you? And like there's not many people in wheelchairs that are following their football club around Europe with their mates.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Or your mates that you were talking about before, they're all West Ham as well.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

Not all of them, but a lot of my mates that you've known since you were young. Yeah. They go, they go to West Ham, and then I've met some other friends that I'm really close with. Yeah. Um, they're in the world-class group chat. Yeah, yeah. Um they they travel around Europe with me and they're brilliant. Like, if we come across stairs or whatever, they'll pick my chair up, I'll walk down the stairs because I can walk a little bit. I mean, you sent me a picture the other day you were at Burton. Yeah, Burton away. So we go all over and we went all over Europe, and it was an experience because some of these countries, disability is not a lot of thing, especially when you're in the away end. They're like looking at you like, yeah, what are you doing here? We don't have people in wheelchairs. Yeah, but yeah, amazing experience to that looking when you won the conference, yeah. Conference lead, that was I turned the TV off. The the final was a was a hard one for me because I was at Roland Garros. Yeah, I was remembering that sort of time, yeah. So I tried everything to I'd done a lot of the games, but you didn't go to the final, and then I saw the dates the year before it would have been perfect, Europa League when we should do semis when we lost in the semis, and then the year after we did the semis, and then the final was during Roland Garros, and me and the uh Roland Garris Tournament Director are no longer friends because he told me that I'd be playing on the day of the final. Oh cheers, mate. The order of play came out, I wasn't playing on the day of the final, and I could have made it from Paris to Prague and back if he would have told me that I wouldn't have been playing.

SPEAKER_01 47:45

So I'm gonna tell you something. I did that trip at Roland Garros one year, Millwall were playoff final, and I left in the morning Eurostar to the game, and I was back at Roland Garros in the same day. Yeah. And I think they lost. I can't remember that.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

Yeah, I had a chat about I had a chat with Novak about trying to get a private jet. We were chatting about that, and it just didn't work. That's just how you travel, wouldn't it? I tried, I tried everything to be there, couldn't be there, but my mates went.

SPEAKER_01 48:13

I'm gonna ask you, what's your if you had to put together of your all-time West Ham fiver side team? Who's in goal?

unknown 48:20

English.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

Who's your favourite one?

SPEAKER_02 48:23

Probably gonna go Ludo, Ludo McCloskey. Ludo McClellan. Okay, that's my bad. 90s, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Show your age, and then I'd probably go what formation do you play in a fourth? Not sure. Joe Cole's definitely in the Joe Cole's gotta be on his own. He's gotta be in there. Decanio's gotta be in there. Yeah, okay, no discipline so far. Pyatt, Pyatt's gonna be in there. Oh my word.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

Have you got anyone stopping the goals or and then my last person? So so yeah, yeah. Joe Cole, Decanio, Pyatt.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

Ludo, Ludo, and then do you know what? It's gonna be a bit of a weird one, but West Ham fans will know.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

I'm gonna put Thomas West Ham are watching me.

SPEAKER_02 49:00

I'm gonna put Thomas Repka. Thomas Reptka as my centre half. Wow. He was a bit of a lunatic, but a cult hero at West Ham, and I'm gonna whack him up. I've watched him play out. Gonna put him in there. And yeah, one way or the other, hopefully next season, West Ham and Millwall will meet again.

SPEAKER_01 49:19

Probably be in the championship, I'd imagine.

SPEAKER_02 49:21

Hopefully not in the championship, but if you play. Don't think they'll let us in the W League. I don't wish Millwall to win any games. But if if I have to wish Millwall to win a few games to come up and it's always a good game, though, innit?

SPEAKER_01 49:34

It is a good one.

SPEAKER_02 49:35

But that's the thing. If you you miss it, I I mean I don't think we've played since like 2012 or somewhere around. I don't think I want Millwall going to the premiership because they get they they'll get smashed every week. Yeah, and then you you miss, you do miss like we have the rivalry with Spurs, yeah. Same but it's still not the same. It's not and this is where like the younger generation it starts to annoy me. Yeah, because they don't like whenever they're asked like who's West Ham rivals, they're saying like Spurs or Chelsea or whatever. Yeah, it's like no mate, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 50:02

It will always be always be me and you're gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

It would always be Millwall. Don't ever give any other answer. If I ever have kids, they will be told Oh, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

Even if Millwall were in the national league. My nephews are not allowed to say the words West Ham in front of me.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

It will always be Millwall, so it's one of them.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

Um okay. Well, thanks very much, Lappers. Thank you. End of your uh beyond tennis experience. Thanks for having me, mate. You're not done yet, though. You're not done yet. So we'll do a match tie break with everyone. Same questions for everyone. I want you to give me the quick answer. Don't spend too much time on it. Okay, so who is the greatest tennis player of all time? Novak. Novak Djokovic. Seems to be a very consistent answer, that one. Who's your favourite tennis player of all time? To watch Andy Murray. Andy Murray, good. Good, take that. What's your favourite shot to hit? Drop shot. Drop shot. You hit too many of them lappers. Yeah. Um who is the best player not to win a grand slam in history? Best player not to win a grand slam. Who do you think is the best player not to win a grand slam? Tim. Tim. Good. Yeah, Tim Hemlin. Good shout. Good shout. Slightly different here. Who's your favourite musical band of all time? Ooh, musical band The Streets. Streets? They were great.

SPEAKER_02 51:25

Very good. Who's your dream doubles partner? Dream Doubles Partner. If I was playing some Johnny Mack.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

Johnny Mack, yeah, yeah, yeah. Another lefty like you. This is a slightly different one. Who is the best non-professional tennis player you've met or heard of? So somebody that didn't play professionally tennis, but you know is pretty good celebrity-wise. And you can't say Thomas Suchek. Is Thomas Suchek the player?

SPEAKER_02 51:52

Decent player. Is he? Decent player. Alfonsariola, West Ham goalkeeper. Is he? Plays a lot. And the only other one I know that is just started playing against uh Tom Skinner.

SPEAKER_01 52:03

Okay. Oh, he's Bosch. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Bosch man. I saw he was taking lessons in Bilaricki, yeah. And he used to play. Yeah. And he can hit a ball. Yeah, he looked like he had pretty decent technique, to be honest with you. Yeah. Yeah, it wasn't terrible. Okay, good one. Um, what genre of music do you listen to before a match?

SPEAKER_02 52:18

Everything.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

Just anything goes. Did you listen to music before matches? Or do you listen to music?

SPEAKER_02 52:24

Yeah, so sometimes it'll be like grime, rapping, trying to really get myself in the zone, and then sometimes it'll be like 80s, so I'll be able to cockney knees up on my Spotify.

SPEAKER_01 52:36

Jazz and Dave. Yeah. Jasmine Dave, okay. This is a two-parter, actually. It's one rule in tennis you change tomorrow, and then I'm gonna ask you one rule you'd change in wheelchair tennis.

SPEAKER_02 52:47

I would probably say I would go back to two clear in the last set. Okay. Yeah. Is that the case in wheelchair tennis or not? No. So it's tie break, same as everybody. In all the grounds. Yeah. And then in wheelchair tennis, I would say one rule I would change is I'll put some limitations on the chair. Because it started to get like Formula One. Some of these guys are coming out with some chairs that are modified. They're madness. Really? So I would make sure that there's some restrictions on what's happening in the latest chairs. So like uh one of the guys, Stefan Houday's chair, was like 100 grand. It was made by like a bike company, and it was he was sitting on a seat, but was it a wheelchair? Was it just spinning on a yeah? Was it uh so then it's like where are we going with it? Are we still in wheelchairs or are we because we don't want it to become full knowledge based where it's the most person with the most money? Yeah, yeah. You still want guys to be able to compete, even if they're from countries that haven't got the money to be able to invest in. How much does a chair cost on average? My chair at the moment about eight and a half thousand pounds.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

And then starter chairs for people that starter chairs, you could probably get one 500 quid.

SPEAKER_02 54:04

Okay. There's some good comments out there. RGK wheelchairs, yeah. RGK. Yeah, RGK wheelchairs are too.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

Um, last question. Who would play you in a film about your life?

SPEAKER_02 54:18

I'm trying to think someone bold.

SPEAKER_01 54:20

I mean, it's definitely a film I would want to watch.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

I would say stafum. Let's say stafum. I'll take it.

SPEAKER_01 54:26

Jackson Stafham, okay. Yeah, I'll take Stafham. Yeah, you got the haircut. Yeah. Yeah. I'll take him. Why not? Good. So that's your match tie break. Perfect. Love it. And you're not even done now. So we've got now we've got one more quiz, which I've kind of come up with last night, which is based on your career. God. Okay, so this is a bit more. So typically a lot of tennis players have a have a good memory of their careers in terms of who they beat in what match and what score was. Um, so we're gonna there's a few in there, like over your career. Yeah. How many times have you played David Wagner? And this was me counting it last night on the ITF.

SPEAKER_02 55:05

I know it's something crazy. It's over a hundred. I'm pretty sure it is. I'm gonna go singles, let's go lower. Let's go 80.

SPEAKER_01 55:21

80 matches. Is it so in terms of ITF events, not just Grand Slams, you played him 80 times. There you go. That's ridiculous. That was a proper rivalry. That was ridiculous. 80 matches you played again. Wow. Okay. Um, we were talking about your MBE. So you got an MBE in 2025 for your services to tennis. Can you name another of the tennis-related people to be honoured in 2025? There was one, two, three, four.

SPEAKER_02 55:47

2025.

SPEAKER_01 55:48

So you you were one of five people during 2025 to be named on the King's Honours list? Can you name any other tennis players? I'm gonna just stab in the dark, Annabelle Croft. It wasn't, no. So we've got Virginia Wade. Virginia Wade was on there. Rob Thorpe, Jane Poinder, and Ken Weatherly. You were just focused on yourself. Yeah, you were just focused on yourself, which is also fine. How many Paralympic medals have you got?

SPEAKER_02 56:15

So one in London Yeah, one in London, two in Rio, one in Paris. Four.

SPEAKER_01 56:23

Four, very good. And can you give me the split of what those medals were? Yeah, unfortunately. Uh one bronze, three silver. Three silver, fantastic. One and three more than I'll ever get. Um how many Grand Slam titles do you have in singles and doubles? We were talking about this before. 18. 16 doubles, two singles. Unreal memory! Yeah, so 18, correct. Good. Um now going across, how many singles titles in ITF events, so including Grand Slams, do you have since 2017?

SPEAKER_02 57:00

I'm gonna go. That's nine years. Nine years, let's say two. 18.

SPEAKER_01 57:06

13. There you go. 13's a pretty good point. Yeah. Okay, you beat David Wagner one of the times of the 80 times you played him. You beat him in the Wimbledon semi-final in 2019. What was the score?

SPEAKER_02 57:20

I remember the match because I was so tight. Three sets.

SPEAKER_01 57:28

No. Give me your score, mate. I do need a I need an answer for that.

SPEAKER_02 57:31

I would have thought it was three sets, but I think maybe the second set was maybe it was second set of tight us, I'm gonna go six, three, seven, five.

SPEAKER_01 57:41

Seven, five, six, four. Only one game off. Seven, five, six, four. Not bad. And then your final question is what was the score when Millwall played West Ham at the den in March of 20, in March 2004? Can you tell me what the Millwall v. West Ham score was in 2004 March? I don't want to answer that question. I do need an answer. I do need an answer. I think it was three. I'm gonna say three nil to millwall. If only, mate, it was 4-1. It was known as the Mother's Day Massacre. Um thanks for coming on, Lapford.

SPEAKER_02 58:20

Cheers, mate. Thank you. Absolutely. You can go yourself.

SPEAKER_01 58:23

Cheers, thank you, mate. Good, good, good. Um, and then tune in for future episodes of Beyond Tennis. Like, subscribe, do all of that sort of stuff. Helps the channel, and uh tune in for the next episode.