SPEAKER_02 0:00

You then moved on to another player, Andy Murray. Yeah, incredible year. You know, again, I loved when he did things that he hadn't won before. You know, Wimbledon's the the number one event for sure, of course. But you know, I loved it when he won uh Italian Open, when he won the ATP finals at the end of the year, when he won Paris first D Master Series, those things he hadn't won before.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Alright, welcome back to Beyond Tennis. This is a good one today. I've got my brother on, Jamie Delgado. So this could go one of two ways. Either a really good conversation or just a brotherly argument. Probably both. We're going to get into his journey through tennis, from playing on tour, coaching at the very top of the game, and what he's learned from being around some of the best in the world. And then, as always, we'll move away from tennis a bit and get into what he actually cares about off the court. Which in his case is a lot of football and a bit of Real Madrid chat. So let's get into it. Jamie, welcome to Beyond Tennis. Thank you very much. Happy to be here. Good, good, good. Have you been on many podcasts before?

SPEAKER_02 1:04

I Greg Rosetsky.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

I've only done one of them. Well, I had a number of people on social media get in contact. I said, who do who do they want on? And your name came up quite a lot. So uh so let's get into it. Um Beyond Tennis, we we we'll talk about your tennis career. So we're gonna go through the fine tooth comb all the way through your your tennis playing days and into your coaching, and then we're gonna move on to your beyond tennis loves. So we're gonna start from the beginning. When did you start?

SPEAKER_02 1:35

When did a tennis racket get in your hand? Tennis started when I was, I believe, six years old. Yeah. Um, back in Tenerife in the in the years that we were living there. Mum and dad, well, dad started playing tennis round about the time that I was born, and uh, you know, he was playing for a few years, so by the time I got to six years old, he was you know playing with his mates and stuff like that, and I used to go and watch or be next to the court in playing or whatever, and then one day I played after his mates had gone, and that was it, really. And then I I really loved it and was a bit of a pain to dad, kind of always wanting to play again, and then you know, I'd play the next week, and then yeah, I kind of remember the court that it was that I played in this hotel in in Puerto de la Cruz where we where we lived. Yeah. Well, what what people might not know, you spent your first ten years of your life living in Tenerife. Yeah, so we lived there. Obviously, that's where you know our parents met. Yeah. And uh that's when my tennis journey started, was there six till about you know, nine, ten years old when then we came across to to England. But yeah, I loved it. It was a nice little club, it was only a two-court club back then and and close to school, and and yeah, I just remember playing every day. So that was yeah, the first day was with dad. Yeah, and then just loved it.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Yeah, yeah. And then there's a quite a cool story of how we came to the UK. What was different from us, we were having our holidays in England uh and living in Spain. Uh that's normally the other way around for other people, but on our one of our holidays back in the UK, you were spotted.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Yeah, so we came back to see you know, grandparents then in Birmingham. Yeah. And yeah, that that, you know, in the summertime. I mean, the reason for coming back was obviously not the way not the anything to do with England, but just to see the family. And there used to be some good junior tournaments at that you know in the summer months. Yeah. And I used to play well, we we used to play those, but obviously me, because of being the older one, first played those, and uh then it was a tournament in Cheltenham, yeah, where David Lloyd was there. And you you were nine years old here, weren't you? I'm nine years old here, and uh playing doubles with a guy called Colin Bennett, yeah, who was from that area as well, and and and you know got on really well with him and played the junior doubles tournaments with him. And I think it was Colin's parents that asked David to come and see Colin play. Right, okay. I think. Yeah, and um so obviously watching the match, I was playing with Colin and and and uh yeah, David came up to my mum after the match and introduced himself and talked about this new tennis school that he's putting together and and uh Which was the Slater squad, which was the Slater squad, which at the time Tim Henman was already there, yeah, uh Mark Moresso and David Lucemore were the three boys that were already there, and David was looking for more players to to take on there. And yeah, he didn't offer me a spot on the uh you know a place you know on the spot there, but he did invite me to a trial to come down to London and meet the coaches, and and that's what we did. I can't I mean I can't remember now, but a few weeks later went down to David Lloyd Heston. Yes, where David was there and uh the coaches were there, they kind of all had a you know played with me and and uh yeah, and then and then basically David offered me a spot to go to the you know to the like a sponsored school which was at Reed School and um the Slater Squad, which was at his clubs, yeah, which was for me obviously an amazing opportunity, and we ended up taking that in.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

So he was he was obviously setting up uh a kind of tennis school for potential Wimbledon champions, is what he was trying to build, wasn't he, at the time?

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Yeah, he was I mean his dream was to produce a Wimbledon champion, yeah. That was his goal, and you know, with Tim obviously he came pretty close to that in Tim, I think makes four semi-finals, yeah. Which is amazing, really, because he picked ten boys at the time, yeah. And um, yeah, I mean to to to be a Wimbledon champion is it is is it is a ridiculous achievement, isn't it? So uh he got pretty close.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Pretty close. Yeah, so that's so that would have been I I would have been very young, but that was a big, big change for the families moving from Tenerife to the UK. Uh talk to me a little bit about the kind of the start of your schooling days there and what did your training look like as a ten-year-old at this new academy. Yeah, I mean, first of all, I loved it.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Yeah, you know, it was a boarding school, yeah, it was um read school. Yeah, it was an all-boys school. I think there was a few girls in sixth form maybe when I was there, but literally less than a handful of girls in the whole school. Uh so that you know that was fun being in a boarding school because you you got you know you got to have fun in the evenings and get to know, you know, really integrate into the school. It was uh I I loved it. But yeah, just a normal school day till three o'clock. Yeah. And then we used to get picked up by uh, you know, one of the the David's drivers for the for the clubs. Yeah. Get driven to initially to David Lloyd Hesson, which was quite far. Yeah. It's like almost an hour away. Then do it was then, yeah, because that was, you know, Coban was in Surrey, you know, it was in Surrey. Yeah. And with the traffic on the M25, it took quite a way, you know, it was it was a long journey. And then luckily, soon after we went to the school, or I went to the school, David Lloyd Rain's Park opened. Yeah. And that was only you know 15-20 minutes away. So that was great. But yeah, picked up at three, taken to the tennis, a couple hours tennis, also some fitness maybe for an hour as well. Yeah. Uh have dinner at the club. Yeah. And we'd do that, you know, five, six days a week. Yeah. And it was Yeah, it was awesome. I loved it because it was it was, you know, even though I was loving my tennis in Tenerife, it was, you know, this was kind of more structured every day with good players. Uh, you know, the coaches were good at the time. Uh and they were all you know, at the time there was Bishop Abbey, the LTA school. Yes. So they also had some of the best kids in the country, and so did David Lloyd school. So, you know, the the best kids in the country, you were practicing with them every day. Yeah. And actually for me, it was great as well, because some of them, or quite a few of them, were older than me as well. So I was, you know, 10 years old coming in and I was practicing with you know the some of the best 12-year-olds, yeah, 13-year-olds, 11, 14.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

And and did you at that time, because you just said there are the two main schools in the UK for the talented juniors was Bishop and Reed's. Did you feel that kind of competition between the two at the time? Yeah, big time.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

Because we, you know, David, I think that came more from David that fed down to us, because obviously David has always had a you know, a colourful relationship, let's say, with the LTA and been outspoken about the LTA. And and you know, at the time, I don't know how he feels now, but at the time, well, he wouldn't feel that way now because obviously his son Scott is the CEO and doing a great job there. But at the time, he was definitely anti-the LTA, yeah. And and the boys felt that? Yeah, we felt that, yeah. It was kind of a David Lloyd school it was kind of against the not against the LTA, but it we were definitely when we played each other at nationals and stuff like that, it was David Lloyd boys against the LTA boys, and um yeah, I think from memory, I think we got the better of them. I think most likely.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Well, kind of going into your junior days from 10 to 14, you were starting to have, and again, I've not said this to you as your brother, but you had some great success. You were starting to win pretty much all the national titles of your age group, um, and moving forward up to when you were 14, you became the world champion under 14. Were you starting? Did you have a at that age? I don't remember you losing much, but how was your confidence as a teenager at that age?

SPEAKER_02 9:07

Yeah, well, Sky, I had I'd never experienced losing. I I was always the best player, yeah. Definitely in my age group, um, and also in the you know, in the year above as well, I would be you know, either winning nationals or losing the final. I lost in a couple of national finals to Gary Laplace, who was also one of the David Lloyd boys. Yeah. But um, I mean I remember the first time I ever lost to someone of my age was in a GB versus Sweden international match. Yeah. And I think I was 13 at the time.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

So that's the first time you'd lost to anybody of your age was 13.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Yeah. Wow.

unknown 9:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

Um and it was a guy called Bjorn Rehnquist, and I lost to him 6'4 in the third, and he he was the number two Swedish player. Yeah. I'll never forget. And that was at seven oaks. No, I lost to him in Sweden. I remember I remember that very well. Yeah. Um, and I lost him 6'4 in the third and didn't play particularly well, but yeah, but I did lose. But he was the Swedish number two, and then the next day I had to play Nicholas Timfjord, who was the Swedish number one, and definitely better than Rehnquist. He was and I was so you know, I was just so eager to win that match and play a good match, and I beat him two and two. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was I was I was yeah, I was not happy with the with with that match. And but yeah, I guess at the time I you know I had a good mentality, uh, confidence, and that one defeat, you know, rather than knocking my confidence, it's it was it was like, come on, this is ridiculous, you know. Like uh and then and then the next day I would uh yeah, I killed, I kill, I killed uh Timfield.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Yeah, so because yeah, when you were uh said winning the Orange Bowl, I think you would have been one of the first British people to do that at that stage. They've obviously had British winners at that world championships since then, but at that point, I remember there being a lot of focus on you, and again, just as your younger brother, I just remember there being news channels and people wanting to speak to you after you'd become world champion at 14. Um you talk to us a little bit about how that maybe impacted you at this at the time, having that extra focus and everyone because I remember that the Ladbrooks were putting bets on you winning Wimbledon as a as a senior as a 14-year-old. Um, what was that like, that extra focus you had?

SPEAKER_02 11:27

I think at the time it was uh you know, IMG as well. Yeah, that was kind of something new to obviously me and and you know, and our parents and stuff like that. And we signed with them uh, you know, a couple of months after uh you know, started getting a couple of deals that were obviously you know good good money deals for someone of that age at that time. And yeah, the attention for that one, because obviously I've noticed as well different players win Orange Bowl since then, but never with the same attention that I got when I won it.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Well, well, I remember being so I would have been eight years, eight years of age, and we had BBC and ITV coming into our living room and doing pieces for the nine o'clock news and stuff. So if I remember that, that must have been on your mind as well.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

Yeah, I mean, I had but yeah, people come into the school as well and come into class and and yeah, it was it was quite I I would say it was quite a lot for that level of tournament. Yeah, you know, I think if someone wins that now, yes, you'd get an article or two probably if that kind of and and that's it.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Um, but I think maybe because I was the first one. But yeah, I mean, I think in terms of for me, yeah, I think I enjoyed it as well. Yeah. Um, because in my mind I you know, I was the best player in the world at the time. Confidence. Yeah, so it wasn't sort of a surprise to me that I was winning that, but maybe the other stuff that was coming with it was was um, you know, it would that was different. Yeah. Um, and the way obviously other people might treat you as well. Because they, you know, every you know, at the time I was yeah, you know, when you show up at tournaments and things like that, everyone's looking at you or coming to watch your matches, or um, you know, extra motivated to play against you and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

And well, well, I felt that as a younger brother, people would come and watch me play because they'd you know, this is his younger brother, so I definitely felt that focus. Um a lot of this series we're talking about kind of the transition from juniors into seniors. Having had such huge success as a 14-15-year-old, how did you find you you mentioned to me that you'd started playing some men's tournaments at 15, or you played one or two men's events at 15? How did you find that transition between the ages of 15 to 18, say?

SPEAKER_02 13:32

So I think for me, you know, I was obviously doing exceptionally well at 14, and I'll still doing exceptionally well at 15. I think at 15 I got to the semis, I think I was fifty, yeah, I was 15. I still got to the semis of the Australian Open Juniors, which is obviously under 18. Yeah. So that was you know, still outstanding level at the time.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Wimbledon semis as well, juniors.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

Yeah, I think I was 16 in the march. I made uh I won Queens Juniors, yeah, made semis of junior Wimbledon, and this was you know I think I lost to Mark Philipoosis in the semis of of uh Wimbledon Juniors, and he's old a year or I think a year older than me. Um and then I think up until about 16 I was doing really well. I remember playing World Youth Cup under 16s in New Zealand, and I was the best player there, and I think my confidence was still in myself was still super high at that point. Um but I think maybe I don't subconsciously, I don't know if I stopped working as hard or something something was kind of maybe still starting to change in terms of you know, because I was quite a talented player, things were maybe coming a bit easy in terms of my results and the level that I was playing at that time, and I and maybe didn't take enough pride and care on the actual not effort because it on the on the process of it of just getting better and and you know, physically as well. I remember sort of not enjoying that side of it too much. Yeah. Um and at the time, obviously, completely wrongly, uh you you know, I was the best at the time without pushing myself physically very much. So I subconsciously again, you're like, well, how you know how important is this physical stuff? Because I'm still beating everyone instead of having the mindset of you know, there's still so much space for growth and to improve, right? I mean, you know, because obviously in the in the senior game you do need to be, you know, a a great mover, you don't have to be super strong muscly-wise or anything like that, but you do need to be a an excellent athlete and and you know, you need to be don't have to be fit than everyone else, but you can't be less fit than everybody else. Yeah. And uh, yeah, I think the the mindset just starts slightly shifting then, and I think by the time I got to 18, I'd lost that momentum then by then. And I was starting to play in my, you know, looking back now, the wrong events, right, the wrong environment I was in, and I yeah, I started I definitely had lost that mindset that I'd had 14 to 16.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

I had Greg Rosetsky on, and he actually mentioned as well that when you were at that age, he he brought you up as at that age as being the high potential player in the UK, and that even someone like Tim Henman was maybe not forgotten, but he was kind of under the radar a little bit. Um so do you think that kind of not harmed your progress having such great success as a young age, or would it have been beneficial maybe not to have had all that spotlight?

SPEAKER_02 16:23

No, I don't think so. No, okay. No, because I think the the the players that are done exceptionally well, let's say in tennis, uh, you know, your Roger Federers, Andy Murray, Novak Djokovic, Nadal, they they've all been exceptional juniors at that age. I don't think it's you know, someone like Tim is kind of slightly against the grain there where he didn't do amazing in the juniors, but I think a lot of the players that have done really well, they were also great juniors. Right, okay, yeah. Um yeah, I mean I don't know the exact sort of stats on that, but you know, someone of my age group would have been also one of the best of my age was someone like a Nicholas Kiefer.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

Uh he won the US Open juniors and he went on to be top five in the world, or Guillermo Canyas, he was, I don't know, top ten in the world. So I think I think sometimes people will knock, I don't think it's the be all and then all of well it isn't the be all it definitely isn't, but just because you're doing well in juniors doesn't mean you're not gonna do well as seniors.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

I think the best players have done well in you know, someone like Alcaraz, you know, they're doing amazingly well in the seniors already at 18. So I can imagine he was pretty good still at 15, 16.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

So yeah, as I said, in this series, we're looking at that transition into the senior game, and the conversations that I've had with some people so far, it seems to be a bit of a theme of uh trying to get through that those stages that you have to in the professional game to the top. So uh you know, some people nowadays we have a lot of kids going off to American university, but you you made the decision that you're gonna go pro from 17-18. Um, how did you find that those first couple of years playing the futures? Uh yeah, coming out of the junior game.

SPEAKER_02 18:01

Well, first of all, to go to you so just to comment on the American University option, I love that option for uh you know high 90% of players. I think you have to be kind of doing as well as I was doing, or you have to be doing exceptionally well to not really consider going there. Uh you know, anyway. Which has changed the perception of it over the last yeah, so it's um yeah, it used to be you know, you go there and you're kind of giving up tennis or giving up the dream of being a tenant. Not at all now. You know, you go there at 18, you come out when you're 22 years old, you've had four years of physically getting stronger, you've obviously matured there. You're if you're gonna play tennis at 22 means that you're you're ready to play, and I think you're not you're in a better place to get through the futures and the challenger level. But I obviously didn't do that. I think that I you know, if I could ri rewind for my own career, I would actually play more junior tournaments up until the age of 18 than I did.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Uh for the reason to keep, you know. I I think I think if you spend too much time at satellite level, yeah, definitely satellite level, I mean challenger level is you know, it's a decent level, but it's still you don't want to be start there either. But definitely satellite futures level, it's not good because you're surrounding yourself with negative mentality, you know, players that are not professional, not professional and not particularly looking to get to the next stage or have big goals, and you end up again not deliberately, but you end up hanging around them, you end up in the same conversations as them, you you end up uh hanging around with them off the court, they're they're not necessarily you know with good habits of being a top pro, and you you you slowly become one of them and and you know that happened to me for a little while, and uh yeah, it can be difficult to get out of that.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

What was your okay from memory, you what was your like ranking when you were 18, 19? What did you get your ranking on?

SPEAKER_02 19:56

I think when I was about 18, 19, I think I would have been around you know, I don't know, 250, 300 in the world, something like that. I think still very high for I mean I think it's kind of roughly that that ranking, but yeah, but I think the mindset had kind of changed a bit. Well you said before change. You didn't have that feeling maybe then at 18, 19, you're saying, or no, I think at that at that age it started changing a little bit, yes. Yeah. And some of the top juniors were it just overtook me a little bit as well. I think they progressed their game more than I had. They were that I think then they were starting to become really good athletes as well. Yeah. And because I didn't enjoy that side of it as much, they were maybe starting to, you know, it doesn't matter how talented I was, if they were quicker than me, could last longer than me, they would, you know, people that were not as good as me, I would be end up in tough matches against them. And if it was, you know, if there was players of a similar tennis level as me, but they were better athletes, that you know, they were usually gonna win, right? I mean, and and and and for me, I was sorry, just to fast forward a little bit slightly ahead of that the Davis Cup match against Zimbabwe for me was a was a big blow. I remember yeah with a with a match that actually I was never in the squad a week before the tie, I was never in the squad, and I ended up playing the match. I think I was about 280 in the world at the time. Yeah. And yeah, that match just not my confidence a lot. It was obviously on TV, it was kind of a a pretty packed you know, Davis Cup atmosphere in Crystal Palace. Yeah. I lost in four sets, but it was a decent match from my memory, and then I played Byron, who was 30 in the world. Yeah. And he was, you know, he was a proper pro and and wouldn't give any points away, and he was he was, you know, he was he was obviously clearly better than me at the time. And I froze and and you know, got whacked in that match. And I think that humiliation of that match really affected me a lot. Did it in my confidence yeah because it was it was kind of the first I'm like whoa it was it was a shock that that could happen yeah and uh you know that on top of like I say at that time it was just starting to slip away from me anyway and I think that was a bit of a a a a sort of nail in the coffin in terms of my mindset and I didn't have anyone at the time to you know put uh put their arm around me maybe and let me know it's okay or put it into perspective because obviously my mind was going over you know over you know overworking itself on on how I'd let everyone down I wasn't good enough and and and that kind of affected me for for a long time really.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Yeah yeah because I remember at that time there was a massive hunger in the British press for you know superstar tennis player at the time so there was a feels like not more focus because you've got social media now but the the with the one or two channels that were showing it in the newspapers there was a big big focus on those matches so I remember that yeah yeah it was a tough weekend yeah and it was like I say I don't think it's a you know I think I think that's why it's important as well you know I'm sure we'll talk about later about football but I think for the Man United kind of top juniors were that were coming through years ago you you gigs and Skulls and Beckham and the Nevill's and all these guys I do remember you know seeing and reading that Ferguson was really careful on when to put them in for matches.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

Yes. You know he would put them in maybe you know 20 minutes to go at home when they're 3-0 up already against someone or or they would kind of be they weren't sort of thrown into the deep end to play Liverpool away in their first ever debut at 18 years old kind of thing. It was yeah and I think that's the same for tennis when when when people are giving out wild cards and Davis Cup matches I think it's it's um yeah you've got to be careful of when you put people in those positions because you know if it it can be great because it can make someone if you know if you win a match like that yeah obviously the confidence you get from it is huge but you've you've got to be ready. Yeah. And I don't think well I wasn't ready. Yeah and and um yeah it didn't help at all.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Yeah well I mean you had a you know excellent career you actually got the world record for the most consecutive Wimbledon appearances with 23 years in a row which is pretty frightening statistic when you hear it. So yeah excellent long career you you ended up kind of focusing on doubles towards the end of your twenties which kind of extended your career what was the thought process behind kind of moving your focus from singles to doubles I mean honestly is is I think because of the singles it was actually another Davis Cup match.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

I mean um Davis Cup doesn't sound David's Cup wasn't kind to me but it was another Davis Cup match where Israel at home and played doubles with Andy Eastbourne Eastbourne and we lost 6-4 in the fifth in actually a pretty good doubles match against Ehrlich and Ram. 4-1 up in the fifth lost that one and I lost in five sets as well of the singles yes I think I was two sets down then I got back to to to to you know I got the I won the third won the fourth then it was a breakup early in the fifth and lost the match yeah and again I think that was the fight that again that was the confirmation in my mind you're late 20s I think I'm late twenties yeah I'd actually qualified one around at Wimbledon that year. Yeah so I was actually playing you know not bad and and again I regret stopping singles then to be honest because I was actually playing you know not bad. I was playing decent uh but I did lose that match but in my mind that was like I'm not you know I don't I don't have it for you know to win this kind of match yeah kind of kicked in and that that that that was me finished for singles yeah so then I started playing doubles yeah yeah and then we we're kind of moving forward now towards the end of your doubles career you then started moving into the coaching you were playing doubles with Gilles Muller is that right yeah at the end I was playing a bit doubles with Gilles and actually you know like I say I wasn't enjoying playing that much the doubles and the doubles yeah and and Gilles was actually he was injured he was injured for a period of time and he just got in touch with someone that always gone really well with Gilles yeah great guy and he asked me to coach him he'd been injured for for I can't remember six months a year quite a bit but you know not not a great injury and he said look Jamie I'm gonna try and play I'm not sure if I can play to be honest but I'm I want to give it a go for six months and I'll and he knew I wasn't enjoying it in the double so he asked me if I wanted to help yeah so um you know we I I I did that we I kind of kept playing doubles with him yeah but with the agreement that I was coaching him as well. And sorry sorry I'm gonna jump in had you thought about coaching before like towards the end of your tennis career had you thought I'm gonna go into coaching no definitely not because I was you know mid 30s at this point and and I've been traveling around for forever yeah you know 20 years 15 20 years and I you know do I want to keep travelling around the answer was no but it's just the way it happened he he like I say he got in touch with me and and it went well well my doubles wasn't going that we know we were winning some matches but I wasn't really enjoying that side of it I was really enjoying actually helping him yeah you know going back to that love for singles even though I wasn't you know nothing's ever the same as playing but I was still getting some enjoyment from helping him and yeah you know get better because he he was down on the floor really I think he was down to 450 and then you know after a couple of years he ended up being I think 30 in the world which was which was great and that was really fun I enjoyed it you know one because he's a great guy got on well with him and he got himself to to a uh you know high high ranking for him was his was best ranking at the time and that was a lot of fun yeah and enjoyed that and in the meantime I I I sort of gave up the doubles yeah well you you you might downplay it a little bit but for somebody stepping into a coaching role in the first two years of your coaching I think you were named ATP coach of the year for thanks to Jill's big jump in ranking at that time um so that's a quite a big amount of success for a early coaching career at this point now are you thinking yeah this is me I'm a I'm a coach on the tour I don't know what I was thinking at the time but yeah I mean it was clear that that the results were going well yeah and I think that the the the most difficult thing at the time just going into coaching because at the time you just go straight in you haven't done any courses or anything you're just kind of going in and you're kind of learning on the job really which is another topic that that you know should that be allowed it should be more of you know trained up and stuff like that but but you know I've always kind of fancied myself in in someone that reads the game well and understands how how someone can play better and and use their strengths better. So I was helping him a lot with how he should be playing and um you know and thankfully results got you know he he he did really well he won a bunch of challenges and gradually got himself up the rankings and it was yeah it was fun. So after a couple of years of really good success getting Jills back up from 430 to top 30 um you then moved on to another player Andy Murray how did that come about that opportunity to start coaching him yeah I mean obviously I'd known Andy for a long time yeah and um yeah I mean I was I was with Gilles at the time so it was it was it was a tough because you know so close with Gilles as well but I you know to be with the British player someone I knew so well and obviously such a great player and and I think he was ranked number two at the time. So yeah you're moving into number two in the world yeah yeah yeah and and and you know one of my feelings always as a coach has been can can you make the player that you're coaching better yeah or can you help them achieve things that they haven't achieved before which of course was easier when you're starting with someone like Gilles Muller or you know other players someone like Andy that's already pretty close to the top it's it's clearly harder. But you know what one of those things is to get to number one in the world which he did which was great. But yeah it was fun. It was great fun I learned a lot from him and and it was what did you learn from Andy I think the detail that everything was you know from coaching Gilles the way we were working with Gilles in terms of the attention to small things yeah in his preparation or his you know the way he analyzed uh trips or events uh how training blocks were really planned yeah um how to work with a bigger team you know was doctor physical trainer physio psychologist and and the nutrition side of it there was there was so much more that was happening in in that team than someone like uh Jill Muller at the time and yeah something that that I learned a lot from 2016 was fantastic year for your your coaching with Andy he won his second Wimbledon and then had a crazy run to become number one in the world can you talk to us a little bit about those few months I mean he had such an amazing success but what was that like those few months? Yeah incredible year I mean we s it you know again I loved when he did things that he hadn't won before you know Wimbledon's the the number one event for sure of course of the year and the the the biggest by far but you know I loved it when he won uh Italian Open yeah when he won the ATP finals at the end of the year when he won Paris Percy Master Series those things he hadn't won before yeah and that for me was I loved that you know it was that that that was great. He won the Olympics as well that year but he'd won that already before you know they were huge achievements but I for me personally I loved it when he did new things even the in 2017 when he won Dubai was I loved that but yeah I think what I remember from that year was the intensity of it was especially in the second half of the year when there was kind of you know the race was on a little bit for him to try and get to number one and definitely to finish number one it obviously went down to the last match it was crazy. But it was long days it was you know it was high pressure yeah you know the way we prepared you know because he was playing matches almost every day because he was winning all the tournaments and it was preparing for each opponent preparing for the days off all the practices it was and also try and obviously keep the team as calm and especially him because obviously at times you know even someone like him would get anxious and get nervous and and um you know for you know how to deal with those situations was was important and I think as a team I think we did that really well. And then obviously he had some injuries after that how tough would that have been those those those couple of years where he had his hip replacement how difficult was that period yeah amazingly difficult for you know obviously for him yeah can't imagine what it must have been like for him but it you know for the whole team as well because it was very unique situation where he had such a bad injury at rank number one in the world. Yeah don't think that's ever happened for a number no I think if you look at the the best athletes in the world you know it doesn't matter what sport it is you normally there's a a gradual decline I would say when you there's maybe a couple of little niggles or you you get a little bit slower or you've lost your edge a little bit but it's it's not like him where he was number one and then he can't couldn't play tennis.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Yeah horrible for him to deal with that. Yeah and now moving on you're currently with Jack Draper we had uh James Trotman on the podcast a couple of episodes ago and he was talking to us a little bit about how special of a talent Jack is um you've you've now been with him a few months you've just come back from the American hard courts how's that how's that been because he he also had to come back from an injury the last six or so months yeah so again super great guy yeah you know really lucky to be with someone that's that's so nice uh great that he's local to me as well that helps a lot another Reeds boy yeah back to yeah Reeds boy yeah and he but yeah also a tough time to start with him as well because of the the injury that he he'd already had you know for some months and yeah it's difficult to start at that point because obviously they're they're they're their rankings going down a little bit and they're not playing and you they're not not able to train normally so it's you know again there's a lot of managing of of the training and and the team and and loads and all that kind of stuff but but yeah I mean he's he's um excellent player you know different to other players that I've coached but he yeah I mean when he's playing well is is is is his tennis is fantastic yeah so the few times I've met him he's super hardworking as well he was definitely leaving it all out there well good that's that's an excellent tennis journey thanks for that um we're gonna move now on to your beyond tennis um which you've listed as football uh I'm a Millwall fan you're a Man United fan so I think today we'll just talk about our shared love of Real Madrid Okay yeah so um yeah I was watching a bit of the football coverage actually a couple of days ago and I was something that came to my mind there's a lot of focus when you're watching some of this football coverage of the coach, the manager, the tactics that they use which kind of make made led me to to to in the tennis world what would you do you see some similarities uh within coaching tennis and and and coaching football or managing football do you know what I think they should do for tennis coaches and I felt this for a little while is like in football the manager you know does for example you know media before the match and after the match.

SPEAKER_02 35:22

Yes. I do think that football you know managers, coaches whatever you want to call them, they do it's more of a you know they're more known and they're more important to the media I guess because they they have more access and they do press conferences and in tennis it doesn't really happen. Yeah. And I think tennis is missing a bit of a trick there.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Well I as I said in this football coverage I was watching Clarence Seedolph talking and and there was maybe 15-20 minutes and they're just focusing purely on the manager and the coach and I I was just wondering is do you think that will ever be the case in tennis where so much focus is placed on the coaching staff.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

Well I think that needs to come from the tournaments. Right. I think the tournament has to I think the tournaments have to make a rule that if a coach is required for an interview that they can do it. Yeah. And I think that yeah I think that would just help a lot. I think it's it's and I as you know a lot of the players they have you know an hour of media to do or or or you know stars program what they call on the men's tour and they don't want to they they don't really ever want to do it. Yeah. And I think you could cut down a bit of the time that the players do and actually just give you know if they have to do an hour you know players do 40 minutes obviously because they're the main show but also give another 20 minutes to the coach to do media stuff and I think it would improve the coaching industry to be honest loads.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

Because I see now you're allowed to coach from the side of the court in tennis.

SPEAKER_02 36:51

In football they're obviously the managers barking orders 90 minutes do you think uh that there's going to be so much focus on tennis coaches or should there be as much focus on the tennis coaches as there are in the managers yeah I think so yeah I mean you're invited the the the the difference with the tennis coaching is that you're not allowed to have a conversation you're allowed to throw in you know one two three four words as a as a I don't know what you want to call it like a bit of advice or guidance or whatever but you can't have a full-on chat right with the player um but yeah I think I mean I think in Australia the coaches they have the coach box on the court yeah I think that's great I quite like the look of that as a fan yeah yeah I think it's good and I think yeah and have uh have it mic'd up and let people listen to what I think it's great TV. I think when I'm watching TV if I'm in a hotel room and watching tennis and I can hear what the coach is saying to the player to me that's really interesting. I like I love it. So I think more should be made of that and I think like I say you've got to do more for the coaches in the media as well.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

And as a football manager what type of football manager would you be and I'm talking about the uh the clothes you choose to wear would you be a tracksuit manager would you be suit and tie who would you be I think I think suit I think I like the suit yeah yeah yeah suit yeah jacket and tie I mean maybe not a tie but and then I I remember you saying a story about Guardiola I mean he he kind of changes around he changes around yeah but I remember you sending me a story about when you were with Gilles Muller and you were talking about the the the coach's attire yeah I remember with Gilles we said I mean it never actually happened but I remember when he was doing the challenges and he was kind of gradually coming up the challenges and then he played Qualies of Wimble and then he qualified and and we had a bit of a joke that if he gone to centre court and played Roger Federer on the centre court that I would be what that for that match I'm showing up in a in a suit which is not the dumb thing really and then he qualified one around and played Roger Federer on centre court so I was like you know well this has got my suit coming on but he uh he didn't he didn't well I think if you'd have worn your suit and tie uh to coach on centre court I'm not sure if you would have had Andy Murray asking you to be his coach after that to be honest with you I mean you know I think didn't I think Jim Courier did that in um did he Davis Cup for the States yeah I liked it but he got a little a lot of criticism but I I liked it why not why not yeah yeah so so Madrid that was uh obviously our our dad's from Madrid so that's kind of our shared club you started sporting them I remember when you were young I remember you going off to Reads as a 10 year old with your lunchbox and all the the Real Madrid team written all over it so who are the key players for your Real Madrid days that you admired Real Madrid they've had some amazing players I mean I mean I think the best players Ronaldo Brazilian Ronaldo and Zidane I mean I think there's tough to beat those I mean there's been some amazing players redondo yeah he was my guy redondo Raul yeah they're not struggled for I mean they've got some English players there haven't they beckham owing Beckham and Owen well good well thanks very much that is your beyond tennis experience you're not done yet though so yeah we're gonna now move on to your match tie break which is same questions I give all the guests have had some interesting answers um but whatever comes to your mind first uh we'll go from there you ready yeah let's go good okay number one who is the greatest tennis player of all time Novak Djokovic Novak Djokovic very good number two who is your favourite tennis player of all time am I allowed to ask the question of what you mean by that or not or just who's your favourite so if you could you could only watch one player play tomorrow who is that Roger Fedra Roger Fedra yeah why well you're asking me who's my favorite I mean just the best most beautiful to watch and just silky smooth making it look easy hitting shots that not many other players can hit there's so much to to like about it yeah yeah um number three what is your favourite shot to hit backhand volley backhand volley very easy one very easy shot not right not for everybody uh number four who is the best player to not win a grand slam Marcelo Rios that's been a good answer from from a few people good okay um who's the best non-tennis player you've heard of so that is somebody that's either a celebrity or some in in another field that you've heard is the best tennis player Diego Fourland Diego Fawlan yes I think he won a seniors event recently I think he played a futures yeah yeah he can play he can because I think he used to play junior tennis in twelve fourteen sixteens he was yeah he was decent yeah yeah I've seen him play on videos he looks decent he looks decent um just while it's on my mind actually that Mastantuano used to be a very good junior tennis player apparently the new Real Madrid player I think he played so Gareth Bale hitting some balls was he right yeah he looked good but Diego Fouran you know can actually play matches yeah yeah he was good um who's your dream doubles partner well I mean at the different age but I think the best doubles player ever is John McEnroe John McEnroe yeah yeah he's had it yeah he was he he made things pretty easy for everyone okay next one what is one rule in tennis that you'd change tomorrow what is one rule in tennis that you'd change tomorrow I mean maybe one serve maybe one surf okay yeah maybe one surf okay I don't I need to think about but okay no worries um who would play you in a film about yourself or someone that looks a bit my who looks a bit like me would you like that the Jamie Logano biopic is out who's playing you oh goodness gracious um I mean it doesn't look anything like me but Vin Diesel Vin Diesel doesn't look anything like me but yeah same muscles yeah yeah good well that's your match tie break thanks for that um finally we're gonna finish off on a quiz that I've designed quite fun for me actually I was up last night looking through your tennis achievements and I've come come come put together a bit of a quiz that's related to a lot of your tennis playing and coaching days. Okay we'll give this one a go. Okay so number one you played Wimbledon a record 23 consecutive years between 1992 and 2014.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

Can you tell me the first player that you ever played at Wimbledon in the juniors in 1992 Bjorn Jakob that's a great memory because that's that's yeah I remember that match that's that's a long time ago yeah yeah so that was your first how old were you would you be I was fifteen and I went on to the court to warm up for the match on the court in my running shoes. I was so nervous and the umpire said look you know change your shoes I didn't realise I didn't have grass cut shoes on.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

So that was your first Wimbledon experience he was 18 huge guy that got totally overpowered yeah but that that was my first match so that was your first ever match at Wimbledon um now also the last person that you played in a main draw doubles match in 2014. So it was the last person or pair that you played in 2014.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

That was uh I think our play was Jill Muller then we lost to Jamie Murray second round and John Pierce. Very good that is true.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

Two out of two well done Number three, you were coaching Andy Murray when he won Wimbledon in twenty sixteen. Who did he beat in the semifinal? And what was the score?

SPEAKER_02 44:08

Thomas Burditch. 6'3, 6'3, 6'3.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

You're on fire here. You're doing better than than than everyone so far. Yeah, that's that's correct as well. That's good. James Trotman was nowhere near on this one. Number four. We spoke about a bit earlier, but you lost to Andre Agassi two times on centre court. Can you tell me the score in the 2003 match? Can you tell me the score between you and Agassiz in the 2003 match? 6'2, 6'4, 6'3.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

No.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

The fourth set match. Okay, so that was that was that was 6'4. Agassiz won 6'4, 6 Love. 4-6. No, no, 6-4, 6-love, 5-7, 6-4.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

On the nose, you're on fire here. Yeah, that's uh you didn't even miss a game, yeah. 4-6, love, 6-7-5-4-6. That's incredible. Okay, two more. Again, going back to that crazy year of 2016. How many consecutive matches did Andy Murray win after the US Open to finally reach world number one? 27. It's 23. So you had 23 wins and two walkovers. Oh, you didn't count the walkovers? Yeah, so 23 wins plus two walkovers. Okay, that'd be 25. Okay. So you got that one. Close though, not bad. That was a crazy run. Yeah. Thinking about that. Crazy run, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:25

It was it beat everyone. I mean, yeah, yeah. Paris was the toughest week there. It was everyone was playing so well against him, and he just kept kept winning. Kept winning. Yeah. And his body must have been in pieces. I don't remember it being bad there in Paris, but I do remember that that week everyone was. I mean he played final Isna, he was playing amazing match. I mean, serving crazy, and then he played also, Verdasco played amazing, Burdish played, everyone was playing amazing against him. And but he still kept winning. Crazy, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

Great work. Okay, last one. Can you name me the four men's semi-finalists at Wimbledon? The year you made your debut in 1992. So this is gonna be a tough one, but four men's semi-finalists in your debut year at Wimbledon 92. I played so the year I played the juniors who were in the seniors you were playing.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

In the seniors, yeah, so yeah, who are the men's semi-finalists? Um Andre Agassiz, John McEnroe, Goran Ivaniseovich, and um Goran beat. Can't remember who he beat Goran in the semis.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

That's amazing memory so far, but yeah, you're missing one.

SPEAKER_02 46:31

Goran beat someone like I'm gonna have a guess at uh Todd Martin. So uh Agassi won.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

He beat Ivaniseovich, so you're correct with that. Yeah, he beat McArna in the semis. Not bad. Very good. I'll tell you what, it's not bad. That's significantly better than pretty much everyone we've had over the last few weeks. Um I know my stuff, I know my stuff. Yes, decent, it's decent. Thank you very much. You're done. Cheers, Johnny. Um, and thanks to everyone for watching. Make sure you like, subscribe, helps the channel, all of that stuff. Vamos